My husband's still out of town. I'm just trying to establish a habit of journaling here to keep from backsliding. I've almost finished Hot Monogamy by Patricia Love (she wrote the forward to TSSM, and Michele listed her books, Hot Monogamy and The Truth about Love, as recommended reading). The Truth about Love is next on my reading list. Sometimes I get a little tired of all this reading, but it (plus listening to the KLA tapes) helps to reinforce the changes in behaviors and attitude I'm striving for.
Hot Monogamy with its step-by-step program with many worksheets and exercises made me realize that I don't know my husband as well as I thought. I'll give him the book to read or look through and offer to do the program with him if he wants (I hope he does).
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. Will Rogers
To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly be broken. C. S. Lewis
EO, I discovered the same thing about my H as we began to repair our sexual relationship. I did not know him as well as I thought I did, and for many reasons. Partly because he kept his sexuality hidden away from me and partly because he and I were embarrassed to 'show' our real selves to each other.
You know, I still sense that he is holding out on some things that he likes or dislikes, so that book might be an excellent way to open up that dialogue. I'll look into it! He hates reading anything secular in nature (so you can imagine how well a sex book will go over..) but it sounds too interesting to let that deter me.
I tend to be a lurker mostly, but I've read your thread here with interest. There is a good book out there called "Living With The Passive Agressive Man," by Scott Wetzler. It might be worth a look if you have not already read it.
eo, I've been meaning to ask... Are the KLA tapes really good. I've been thinking of getting the CDs because I could listen to them in the car. I would like my W to listen to them but (being terribly English) she would get annoyed if Michele has an "American saleswoman" type of voice. (I've never heard your voice Michele, so apologies to you for making assumptions). SD
Honeypot, I think the worksheets and exercises in Hot Monogamy might help open up dialogue. They're not all about sex either, some have to do with learning to communicate better with each other, discovering what says "I love you" to each other, etc. The exercises dealing with sex emphasize intimacy, respect, and communication. Even if my husband doesn't read the book, I may ask him if he'd like to do some of the worksheets and exercises.
Elle, Thanks for the book suggestion. I've decided to give Michele's approach at least a 6-month try, but she also says to try something different if what you're doing doesn't work. The book you recommended sounds like a good alternative plan.
SuperDave, I think the KLA tapes or CDs (I keep referring to them as tapes but I actually have the CDs) are really good. I love to read, and I have Michele's books, so I wasn't sure how helpful the CDs could be. I decided to order them because a new KLA group was starting (you can get an idea of some of the concepts on the first couple of CDs by reading the posts on the KLA 2004 forums). What surprised me was that HEARING the concepts, even though I'd read about many of them, seemed to make them stick in my head better. I listen to them repeatedly now to try and keep the changes going. As for Michele's voice, it is American (I lived in England twice as a child because my USAF dad was stationed there so I think I know what you're talking about) but friendly and kind. Michele's appeared on several TV shows here; perhaps you could contact her office to find a link to an audioclip.
Today's update: My husband's due home this evening. He called again last night and we had another pleasant conversation (when he left, we were both irritated with each other).
I'm still reading Hot Monogamy and came across the following:
Quote: If you want to create ongoing romance, find out what says "I love you" to your partner and do it. This is not as simple as it sounds. We have a natural tendency to show love the way we want to be loved. We want to believe that my preferences are your preferences, my desires are your desires. This is rarely the case. One person's idea of romance may be hiking together through the Sierra Nevadas; another person's may be sharing a two-hour spending spree at Tiffany's. In order to create romance, these two individuals have to tailor their expressions of love to each other's sensibilities. If the person who likes expensive jewelry gives a pair of diamond cuff links to the partner who lives in jeans and hiking boots, the unspoken message is not "I love you" but, "I wish you were more like me." To be a true romantic, you have to see the world through your partner's eyes. Patricia Love, Hot Monogamy, pp. 180-181
I realize now that sexual intimacy is what says "I love you" to my husband, that it's far more than a physical itch. For the past few weeks, too, he's been much more affectionate with me with more ILYs, long nonsexual hugs, notes, etc (these are all things I've missed for a very long time).
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. Will Rogers
To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly be broken. C. S. Lewis
My husband came home from his trip Friday night. He was tired and was feeling a little under the weather. I could definitely feel distance between us, but I recognized that this is pretty normal when he's gone for more than 1 night. I hugged him a few times, told him that I missed him, etc (big change in attitude and behavior on my part). He went to bed before I did, but I still did what he'd asked for before (sleeping with him wearing nothing but his favorite perfume). I didn't think much would happen (and I didn't want to wake him up), but after a short while, he reached for me and we ML, which was good but still felt a little distant.
The amazing thing was what followed. Even though it was late at night and he's not a night owl, we then spent almost two hours talking with each other (relationship talk and non-relationship talk).
He also talked about why it's hard for him to sometimes just ask or say or "take" what he wants from me (related to childhood issues and his mother). We also talked about how I felt when he threw open-ended offers or initiating back at me as "demands" during arguments about other stuff (some of it is related to the "good girl" vs "bad girl" dichotomy); and he apologized and promised not to do that again. I asked him if he wanted me to initiate and/or offer and told him that I like doing that because he seems to really like it, and he told me to go for it.
He also mentioned that he wasn't 20 anymore and that he might not be able to do it every night (could have fooled me though, he's always been a high testosterone man). I reassured him that this wasn't a problem, that he now has complete control over the frequency of sex in our marriage because my desire or drive is fueled by his desire and my desire for HIM rather than a physical urge. I also told him truthfully that I really do enjoy giving him massages, foot rubs, or sometimes just "playing" with him.
We spent most of Saturday morning with each other, and later he said "C'mon, let's go get lunch." In the past, he would have asked if I wanted to get something to eat, and if I'd been busy or distracted, I would have automatically replied, "no". We then went grocery shopping together (it may not sound romantic to most of you, but with his schedule and the house remodeling, we sometimes have to fight for every minute we spend together.)
Out of the blue, he said he'd like to look at buying another house as an alternative to doing the planned remodeling on this one. We talked some more (this is usually a real hot-button issue for us that usually ends in a big fight and then silence for days between us), and I explained that I loved the quality of the work that he did and the location of our home, but I didn't like feeling like we were living in limbo, not knowing what came next or when it would be finished. So, we're going to do some househunting, get estimates to build the addition on our home, figure out exactly what and when we'd do certain projects if we stay in this house, and then make a final (or at least a semi-final) decision whether to stay put or move to another house.
We ML again Saturday night with the lights on and with me initiating with several different "techniques" and "positions".
This morning we ML again and finally used the Liberator pillow shapes recommended by another poster, DBrookie. Lots of fun.
Afterwards, we had a long discussion about sex. I explained to him some of the things I've learned about myself, such as the fact that when I feel close to him, I'm always "ready" even though it may take my body a few minutes to catch up, that when I'm "ready", he doesn't have to worry about getting me in the mood, that we might need to use a little Astroglide until my body gets the message but he can just "take me" (that seemed to really turn him on). Like some of the women in Michele's book, I really get into it once we get started but I often don't get into it until we start.
We also talked about what we liked best about sex. I've finally realized that although I'm easily orgasmic, what I like most about ML (and physical affection in general) are the more sensual and emotional aspects. I explained to him that it's as though he sweeps me up with him on top of a cresting wave and I want to stay on top of the wave (I even get that feeling when I'm "doing" him with my hands and/or mouth because he's made himself very vulnerable to me and I also love how he looks, feels, tastes, and smells "down there").
As for the emotional aspects, I told him how turned on I get by the idea and recognition that he's penetrating me and is inside me (both he and I grew up in homes where we had to become self-sufficient and independent). I realized and told him that I trust him completely in bed not to hurt me (physically or emotionally) so he can "take" what he wants and/or what I give and that he can trust me to let him know if I need something else or something more. For the first time, he also told me explicitly some of things he likes most (sexual and nonsexual touch), which surprised me in a very good way.
The conversations this weekend have been the most open about ML that we've ever had before. I'm sure we still have a long way to go (after more than 20 years of marriage, there are a lot of bad habits and patterns to overcome), but at least it feels as though we're finally on the right road together.
I am so thankful for Michele's books and CDs because a few months ago things seemed hopeless and I'd moved out of our bedroom (he'd moved out for a while almost a year ago) for a couple of months because we seemed to fight or give each other the silent treatment much of the time. I didn't know if we'd divorce (divorce is against my beliefs, both religious and nonreligious), but I could see us sleeping in separate bedrooms; and I really didn't think it was possible to feel and trust that I could be romantically in love with him again.
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. Will Rogers
To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly be broken. C. S. Lewis
Thanks, Hairdog. It was a terrific weekend. My husband's happier and more relaxed that I've seen him in a very long time. I'm happier and more relaxed, too. Most importantly, I think we both feel loved by the other. We spent the entire weekend together, with our kids as a family some of the time and without our kids by ourselves as a couple. We had some of the most open discussions of our marriage.
We ML again last night (that's 4 sessions between Friday night and last night), again using the Liberator pillows (should have remembered how much men and boys love new toys).
He also finally believes me about how I get aroused and turned on by HIM, by his love for me, and by his arousal and desire (I'd explained to him that if I feel emotionally close to him I'm already "warm" and that my body will catch up once we start ML). Simple solution-- I showed him by not letting him touch me while I kissed him and "did" him with my mouth and hands for 15 to 20 minutes last night. Then, I let him touch me "down there" and he was able to see and feel for himself that I was very aroused and ready even though I'd been in "mom" mode seconds before I came to bed.
In all fairness, I have to give my husband a lot of credit. He also read Willard Harley's book, His Needs, Her Needs, and it's obvious that he's trying and succeeding at meeting my needs, especially for affection (nonsexual) and conversation. Also, when I apologized and showed him how remorseful I was about turning down his sexual advances in the past, he told me it was water under the bridge and he brought me roses the next day. Michele discusses in her KLA tapes that she sometimes has to tell a couple in counseling that she can't help them because one or both of them won't let go of the anger and forgive the other. One of the things that probably helped the most for my husband and me is that he didn't hold a grudge and forgave me very quickly and sincerely (it works both ways, too, I've learned not to hold grudges against him and to forgive and let go).
All in all, one of the best and most loving weekends we've had since getting married.
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. Will Rogers
To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly be broken. C. S. Lewis
We didn't ML last night, which was my husband's decision (he worked a 10-hour day, then came home and mowed the grass for 2 hours and was tired), but I gave him a 2 hour foot massage while watching a DVD earlier. He asked if it was okay that we didn't ML and I reminded him that he has complete control over the frequency and that he had seen for himself the night before that my PHYSICAL arousal and desire kick in after we start even when it's me doing him.
I noticed yesterday that thoughts and memories (all good) of ML with him crossed my mind several times throughout the day.
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. Will Rogers
To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly be broken. C. S. Lewis
