I'm the LD wife in our marriage (husband is very HD). We're both comfortable with sex and both of us enjoy it. Until recently, however, we were only ML 2 or 3 times a month partly because his job requires a lot of travel (in fact, he just returned from a week long trip on Friday and found out today that he needs to go out of town tomorrow for another week), mostly because we were in a downward spiral where we felt distant and irritated with each other and he'd stopped initiating because I turned him down once too often. I was a potential walkaway wife until I read an article by Michele and then bought her books, including TSSM, found this board, and finally realized the hurt and rejection my husband felt especially since sex had been terrific and frequent BK (before kids).
We both have some family of origin issues but I believe that they're not as important as I used to think they were. I've been using Michele's KLA (keeping love alive) tapes and have apologized to my husband for turning him down and have promised that I won't turn him down, that I will ML and give him any other type of physical affection whenever, wherever, and however he wants. He's also said that he prefers that I sleep next to him with nothing on but his favorite perfume (he's very touch and smell oriented), which I've been doing whenever possible for the past month or so.
To make a long story short, I've decided to start journaling because I'm trying not to backslide especially in light of increasing passive aggressive behavior from him after an initial "honeymoon" period.
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. Will Rogers
To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly be broken. C. S. Lewis
Your pseudonym “eyesopened” is appropriate for you and demonstrates that there are two different flavours of “LD”. Those like you and Corri who recognise there is a problem and take action and those like hairdog’s, CeMar’s and my Ws who fight against change and have to be “coaxed out” by differentiation. The steps you are taking like sleeping naked will be really appreciated by your H. SD
Eyes, Here is my professional opinion on your situation...ha ha, just teasin ya.
Seriously I wanted to say that things sound as if they are progressing really well and to not get discouraged by irritable behavior in your husband. This is a relatively new development in your relationship and it will take a while for him to adjust to the "new" you.
Right now, I would venture to guess that he does NOT trust that these changes are real and lasting. And who can blame him, right? On the other hand, requiring someone to continue to 'prove' themselves is downright cruel. I hope that the two of you can continue to build the trust level back up and the intimacy will follow.
One month is a very very short time for a major change to take place. Try to not read too much into his moods and allow him time to work through everything that is going on. There are SO many questions that are running through his brain right now and time and consistency is what will answer them.
Hey Eyes, I pop in occasionally. I'm afraid it is a way I procrastinate from doing other stuff I should be doing.
My SSM has been a thing of the past for almost two years now. My experience is that sex is about sex. It has all the benefits that it brings with it and it's worth it in and of itself. It doesn't cure other ills and it can't be used to avoid other problems. People behave the way they are going to behave until the specific behavior is dealt with directly. There may be a "honeymoon" as you aptly called it, but ultimately the honeymoon will end...even if the sex continues. So if the passive-aggressive behavior is a familiar behavior pattern for him, I'll predict you'll have to confront it as a separate issue from the sex issue if you want it to change.
I wish you good success in your "renewal" with your husband, and congratulations on your repentant attitude and willingness to work on things.
I am a HD husband whose wife similarly apologized and realized the great pain she had caused me, after many hours of tears and heartfelt, gut-wrenching conversation. Promises to "never go back" to "the OLD Mary" lasted about a month or two, and it's now been 3 years of things being RIGHT back the way they were before.
So I guess we did "blackside," and maybe there are things that I did (or didn't do) that could help you. The main thing is, I didn't "call her on it" at the time, I guess because this was about the fourth or fifth "come-to-Jesus" meeting we had had on the subject in the then-15 years of marriage, and I guess I felt like she knew where I stood and it was up to her to do something about it.
I would encourage you to communicate to your husband if you feel yourself slipping back into your old ways, and try to "nip things in the bud," as it were. Had my wife done that, we may have made out better. But it's still my fault for not calling her on it.
Nothing happened last night (didn't even sleep naked with him) because it's "that time of the month" and he was morphing back and forth between his "good guy" and "passive aggressive alien" personalities, and he came to bed after I did.
He's going out of town today (and I'm irritated about it since he could have turned down this troubleshooting trip--he's an engineer and project manager, and this isn't one of his projects) and will be gone until Friday.
Considering his mood, it's unlikely that I'll hear from him until he returns home (I can also reach him on his cellphone if needed, but experience has taught me that it's best to leave him alone when he's in a pissy mood, which is why I won't call). Hopefully, if I keep following the KLA tapes (which are great), there will come a point that I can call him or make the first move by "acting as if" everything's fine between us so we don't get into one of those endless loop type of arguments that accomplish nothing. Unfortunately, I'm not at that point yet, and I don't feel confident of my control over my feelings and emotions to the point that I won't get a pissy tone in my voice.
SD-- I've been following your situation and am rooting for you and your wife. I feel much closer to my husband when we're physically affectionate with each other, especially after ML. There's just something about "touch". I'm also reading Pat Love's book, Hot Monogamy, which is recommended by Michele. I'll post a review of it when finished since it's essentially a self-help book with exercises.
Honeypot-- I agree, and Chocolateeyes' post is proof that changes like this don't always last. That's one of the reasons I started this journal because I wouldn't want to talk about this with people who actually know us, but I need all of you to help me stay the course when things get discouraging. It's also easier for me to focus on the negatives in the marriage and overlook the positives, and there have been a lot of positive developments over the past few weeks. A real hot-button issue in our marriage is our home. We have not lived in a finished, fully functioning house for 16 years (talking about 3 different houses here) because of my husband's penchant for remodeling (think of shows like House Rules and other shows where they're doing MAJOR remodeling and now think about trying to live in those houses and raise a family while the person doing most of the remodeling is also dog-tired from working 60 hours a week at a job and is often gone away from home; and it doesn't do any good to hire contractors because he rips out their work and redoes it--did I mention he's an engineer?). It's probably going come down to a choice between my marriage or a nice, finished house. If there was book, The "Home as a Haven"-starved Marriage, I'd be the HD spouse with one of those LD spouses who just doesn't seem to "get it".
MPT-- I do a lot of my procrastinating here, too. What you said about the passive aggressive behavior is something I worry about. But, in our case, there's at least a possibility that better and more frequent sex may spill over into other areas in the marriage (if not, hopefully he'll realize what he's risking losing). According to the info in Willard Harley's book, His Needs, Her Needs, and my husband's statements, sex is his number one emotional need, and he's definitely a HD guy. Before we moved in together (we lived apart during the week even after marriage because our jobs were 100 miles apart), sex was great. We didn't move in together until I was almost 6 months pregnant with our first child, and ML has been sporadic ever since. Michele says to try something different in resolving marital problems, and this ML often and whenever, however, and wherever he wants is something different for us as a married couple.
Chocolateeyes: I'm sorry to hear that. Any chance that your wife would be willing to use a board like this where she can remain anonymous to help? Thanks for the advice, too. I'm not very good at picking up nonverbal cues from my husband, so this is something to monitor. Also, neither my husband nor I came from families where the parents were physically affectionate with each other. My husband said he NEVER saw his parents touch each other affectionately. I recall my father hugging my mother sometimes but she didn't hug him back, and my parents sleep in separate bedrooms.
Like I said, my husband's gone for the week (and he probably won't call), so I have lots of time for reading and re-reading Pat Loves' books and Michele's books.
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. Will Rogers
To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly be broken. C. S. Lewis
Eyes, Your note about the house in permanent remodeling reminds me of a cartoon I saw in which a person who has just arrived in hell is offered two doors, one says hell, the other says living in your house while it's being remodeled. And the demon giving the choice says, It's pretty much the same thing, isn't it?
Scott -Who needed some humor today due to stupid callers at work.
"Satisfaction is not guaranteed." Rule #19 Ferengi "Rules of Acquistition"
Quote: Chocolateeyes: I'm sorry to hear that. Any chance that your wife would be willing to use a board like this where she can remain anonymous to help?
Possibly, but I'd hate to lose you all as a resource for MYSELF! She would notice my s/n immediately if she ever came on here, despite my calling her "Mary" in my previous post.
Scott, I'll have to look for that cartoon because it really hits home. Our kids loved the show, Home Improvement with Tim Allen, because they thought their dad was just like Allen's character (loved working on cars, building things, and had many, many mishaps while doing so). On that show, however, things were always finished within half an hour unlike real life. Even when he's tried to confine it to one room, the remodeling just seems to naturally spread throughout the house like kudzu. I've asked myself if there's any malice or passive aggressive behavior involved, but I honestly don't think there is. I think this is a way he shows love to us (his mother used to always have projects for him to do) and the work he finishes is of excellent quality with top quality materials, but he bites off way more than he can chew.
Chocolateeyes, I understand what you're saying and it would be hard for me to post if I knew my husband was posting here, too. The anonymity allows me to say things (and to sometimes vent) that I prefer not to discuss with anybody who actually knows us.
Here's the latest update. Yesterday I said that my husband, who's out of town, probably wouldn't call because we both were irritated with each other. I was wrong. He did call, I was friendly and nonconfrontational, and we had a pleasant conversation. Last week, we were in a similar situation and he didn't call for the entire week. At this point, it seems as though the KLA tapes and the increased LM could be having a positive effect on the marriage as a whole although it's still too early to tell.
I'm still reading Hot Monogamy, which is one of the books recommended by Michele in TSSM. I've also made physical exercise a top priority because I feel better physically and emotionally if I exercise regularly.
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. Will Rogers
To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly be broken. C. S. Lewis
I've heard and believe the concept that love is an action verb, not just a feeling (analagous to Michele's assertion that love is a choice). I'm posting this quote by Harry Stack Sullivan (one of America's foremost non-Freudian psychiatrists) because it helps clarify, at least to me, the meaning of love and what is required of one who truly loves another. I've also given this to my sons to help them distinguish among lust, infatuation, and love.
When the satisfaction or security of another person becomes as significant to one as is one's own satisfaction or security, then the state of love exists. So far as I know, under no other circumstances is a state of love present, regardless of the popular usage of the word. --Harry Stack Sullivan Conceptions of Modern Psychiatry
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. Will Rogers
To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly be broken. C. S. Lewis
Our kids loved the show, Home Improvement with Tim Allen, because they thought their dad was just like Allen's character (loved working on cars, building things, and had many, many mishaps while doing so). On that show, however, things were always finished within half an hour unlike real life. Even when he's tried to confine it to one room, the remodeling just seems to naturally spread throughout the house like kudzu. I've asked myself if there's any malice or passive aggressive behavior involved, but I honestly don't think there is. I think this is a way he shows love to us (his mother used to always have projects for him to do) and the work he finishes is of excellent quality with top quality materials, but he bites off way more than he can chew.