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Thanks for your thoughts KML.

No…I don’t think there is anything else going on. Part of it is that her dad lives in our home. Her bestie is two doors down, she has her room and her fish and it is the only home she has known here. When I lived there, she never wanted to go to her dad’s so it’s a bit that.

The moodiness predates Covid. She has been developing an anger towards her brother since puberty hit and even a bit before that. I know she wants me to just agree with her and tell her it’s all him and she’s the better kid but I refuse to do it. She has a part in it and often sets him up to lash out at her. Her dad, I think, buys into the narrative a lot more than I do. She is right about one thing and that is that I do baby my son a bit and I am aware and have been working on it.

S14 has always had an issue with trying new foods (an intense fear leading to numerous meltdowns) which has been a constant worry for me since he was a toddler. Lately, he has been way more open to trying new things and when he does, I go out of my way to reinforce it and tell him I’m proud of him for it so hopefully he will continue to keep challenging himself. D14 HATES that. She thinks the bar I have for her is so much higher than him because I don’t praise her for the same thing. My response to that is, “what bar?” I do not pressure that kid to do anything. We have had maybe two conversations about basketball this past year. where I suggested to her she might want to work on her skills outside of team practice by going to camp, etc… When she has dismissed my thoughts on it, I have told her that I’m just thinking ahead to later years when playing time starts to go to the kids who are the best at it and to be prepared that that she might not be one of those kids if she doesn’t make an extra effort. She told me she didn’t care so I have purposely left it alone all season and not said a word to her about it except for last week when I asked her about camp and she said “no”. In her mind, though, I ALWAYS pressure her about this. It’s just not the case but that’s her reality, I guess. We also had an argument a couple of years ago when I was trying to teach her the proper way to shoot a basketball and she got really upset because she just wanted to do it her way. That was the first and last time that happened but in her mind, it’s always happening. I distinctly remember a conversation with her last year in which she asked me if I would watch her volleyball games if she decided she didn’t want to play basketball. My response was, “Of course. I’m not gonna lie, I always hoped you would love basketball the same way I did but if you don’t and volleyball is what you want to play, of course I will support it.” Yep…I get no credit for that at all. She only remembers the argument we had two years ago and so now I am forever pressuring her no matter what I do or don’t do. I tell her I am proud of her all the time but she doesn’t remember that either.

RE: boys living nearby or her getting away with things at his place. No. I don’t think that’s the case. She talks to me about boys all the time and I know she doesn’t have a boyfriend. This is the one area that she is surprisingly mature about. RE: drugs and alcohol. That’s just not on her radar. She’s pretty vocal about those things not being for her and none of her friends are into it either. Her dad is pretty strict in some ways so I don’t see her getting away with anything under his watch. That’s actually more likely to happen under my watch because I am more trusting than he is just in general.

Is XH badmouthing me to her? He’s guilty of a lot of things, for sure, but I really don’t think that is one of them. It’s more likely that he doesn’t challenge her view of me when she starts talking in absolutes about what I always or never do. That would be hard for him to do, though, as he really doesn’t know what kind of parent I am. He hasn’t witnessed me parenting our children for almost eight years now. He didn’t have to call me on Saturday though or offer to meet with her and I together so I really don’t think he has much to do with this. I don’t think OW says anything to her about me either. The kids have never said anything to me about her that would lead me to believe she talks to them about me. If she did, there is no way S14 would keep that from me. She also doesn’t seem like that kind of person, to be honest.

Anyway…another somewhat sleepless night for me. This feels a lot like when my marriage ended. Feeling very sad this morning.

D I have a 13 and a half year old daughter so I understand the mood swings. Have you tried validation with her? "I know brothers can be annoying and it can be frustrating". "sounds like you are enjoying getting a some space from your bother. I get that". The worst thing you can tell someone IMO in a heated situation is that they "need to do something". That's why you got the "gotta go". A better statement may have been "what can we do to make it so your brother doesn't annoy you so much?

Anyways, this too shall pass.

This statement sounds like a lot of pressure. If she chooses volleyball she will let you down.

Do you just say it or do you tell her what specifically you are proud of?

IMO I agree that KML is probably projecting and none of her concerns applies to you.

LH - The basketball issue is a moot point. Two weeks ago she told me that she remembered how much she loves basketball and feels like she may even love it more than volleyball. The pressure is all in her mind at this point and an excuse for her to be mad at me. I’ve been to just as many volleyball games as basketball games. I support her in everything she does.

I tell her specifically what I am proud of. That she is into sports and making healthy choices. That she is being really responsible about her job. That she is a talented artist. That she has worked really hard to overcome her Dyslexia and is now reading at the same level as her peers. That she is brave and doesn’t let her speech challenges stop her from putting herself out there. That she is a loyal friend and is supportive of them. The list is long.

I don’t think KML is projecting any more than any of us do. She is just asking questions I would ask if I didn’t know the kid specifically. Kids are doing all kinds of crazy things these days. I have a 13 year-old client who is currently on life support from a drug overdose (not intentional) that happened at home while his parents were out mountain bike riding. This boy’s issues with drugs were well known but there are many like him whose parents are in the dark about it. I just don’t think that’s my D currently.

I hear you on the validation thing. It’s hard for sure. Especially since she blows it so far out of proportion and takes no responsibility for her part in it. It’s her world at this point, the rest of us are just visiting.

I use to annoy the $hit out of my sister lol. Shocking right Andrew? lol

I thought that was just a brother's job, because my brother still to this day can be an annoying little sh!t when he wants to be, but I love him and know he'd do absolutely anything in this world for me at any time.

Deja, I'm so sorry you are going through this. I wish I had some sage advice to offer, but I really don't. What I do know for certain, since my kids are older than yours, is that they do eventually come back around. My middle daughter went through a stage where she hated me and her dad and just kind of shut us out from everything and we just hung in there and still reached out on birthdays and holidays, but otherwise kind of left her alone and she circled back around to us eventually. She still have a pretty up and down relationship with her dad, but her relationship with me is back on track and better than ever. So, I hope your daughter comes around sooner rather than later, but I promise she will. I honestly think a lot of it is just her age. Something about those teenage girl hormones just make EVERYTHING so extreme. I have no doubt that you are a good mom. She'll see it again too, at some point.

DejaVu, your approach towards encouraging her with sports sounds very mature to me. My father pressured me to play basketball--because I was athletic and got my height early--and that looked nothing like your interactions with your daughter. Yours sounded 90% amazing. The last 10%? Human. I'm sorry you're facing such a radical 180 in her behavior towards you. I would be crushed and sleepless, too. Practical advice--try to get a nap. It sounds trite, but every hole feels deeper and worse when we don't get enough sleep. Sending ((hugs)) and prayers and support your way.

Good Morning DV

I think you are entering the teenager years. Daughter sounds perfectly healthy.

All my kids somewhat rebelled. Broke away from the tired and true and forged and tried their own temporary path. Teens need to know they will be alright. They purposefully, albeit unknowingly and subconsciously, will create problematic situations for themselves to overcome.

You being a strong stable Mom / parent gets blamed and pushed away. Kids need to do this. They need to stand on their own. To be held accountable. Yes, accountable, as odd that may seem. To have consequences for their actions and to make reparations and know they will be alright. To know mistakes are all right. And it super hard for a parent to step back and let them. Of course, we don’t let disastrous events befall them.

It’s difficult for both parent and child as they grow and see us as just people. For their entire life, we parents knew everything, were all powerful, and could do anything. The slowly unveiled reality that we aren’t is difficult for them to accept, and difficult for us to loose such veneration.

Alas, a necessary step. In time, they grow and mature, and emotionally and intellectually we see more eye to eye. Physically eye to eye occurs far sooner.

My path, such as it is, was as it was before. I loved them. I encouraged positive and ignored negative. Admonished when and where necessary. The tough part about being a parent is being the parent and not worrying about being their friend. Especially when they are needing accountability. I think we do a disservice to our kids if we do else-wise.

This is not punishing them. It’s holding your boundaries and enforcement of them. We are the role model, and kids need to know we have rock solid beliefs and values (and boy will they test them) and that they can have them as well. Consequences for actions. Disrespectful behaviour towards me all day, and then you want me to drive you to the mall. It’s ok for them to miss out on a few things. In fact, as weird as it is, they actually create the events to do so.

The situation does get much better. Kids reach 18-22 ish and become someone else. Become. It’s quite amazing to see. A bit sad to let go the grown child who can stand quite well on their own. And it’s with much pride you hug the adult.

Anyhow, just my view.

And you are doing a fine job DV. Just knocked off balance a bit is all. Pretty sudden when teens explode upon the scene.

D

Thanks everyone. This has been hard but also a good reminder of how important it is to listen and validate our kids even when what they are saying has no merit, or at least very little, in our eyes. D14 is being absolutely over the top ridiculous in her level of upset (molehill meet mountain) BUT they are very real and valid to her so I have to accept that this is where she is at and work on repairing a relationship that I know is very strong underneath all of the teenage drama and emotions. Her drive for independence and freedom is much much stronger than mine was at her age and also stronger than her brother's. They are very different humans indeed.

One positive that has come from this...

Believe it or not... I think XH and I are on better terms than we have been in a very long time. This situation has forced us to communicate more and I have to say that I am extremely grateful for his support. He texted me yesterday that he wanted me to know he is in no way behind her sudden upset and in fact, was as shocked by it as I am. He said he felt a bit caught in the middle and I told him that he needn't feel that way as both of us are on our daughter's side...she just doesn't realize that.

In hindsight, I think one of the now moot problems in our relationship was that I had always been the leader and him the follower. At the time, I thought I was just doing everything I needed to do to look after our family and take stress away from him but I think I did it too much and he became less of a partner and more like a fourth child that I needed to manage. Was that completely my fault? No...he could have taken on more responsibility instead of letting me do it all. But then again, I could have handed some over as well. Watching him take on so much with his new wife and consistently being there for her has been difficult in some ways but also kind of nice as it tells me I wasn't completely wrong about him. It has also allowed me to trust him more when it comes to looking after our kids.

This morning he texted me "Happy Birthday" which was nice to receive but also hurtful because he rarely, if ever, remembered my birthday when we were married. Valentine's Day? Nope...probably stopped caring about that shortly after our kids were born. I think we often didn't make a big deal out of these little events because we were so preoccupied with our kids and everything that entailed but by doing that, we put our relationship last and that definitely had an impact over time. Now, with the 50/50 parenting schedule, he gets to be a dad for half the time and a doting husband the other half of the time. He is reportedly doing well at both and I can't help but be happy for him...that he feels good about who he is these days. How could I have ever loved him and not want that for him? Bittersweet feelings, to say the least.

So...had a texting conversation with VP yesterday. Told him that I really like him and he is fun to be around but that I haven't really felt too much of a romantic attraction towards him at this point. I said that I didn't really know what to do with that as I don't want to lead him on but I also don't want to prematurely close the door on something potentially great either. So I told him that I had decided to just be honest and then he could decide how much time and effort he was willing to put into a relationship that may not go anywhere romantically. I wasn't sure how my message would be received but I also know myself well enough to know that if I went out with him again without him knowing where I am at, I would feel too much pressure to feel something and wouldn't have a good time. A few minutes later he texted back that he completely understands and he is aware there hasn't been a "spark" between us but that he really likes me and I am exactly the kind of person he is attracted to. He said, for him, the barometer is how he feels after he kisses someone and that hasn't happened with us so he is reserving judgment. That was such a relief to know that. I know that I have been more standoffish than I normally would be because I am scared of giving him the wrong signals so this gives me a bit more freedom to be myself and more in the moment. Anyway... we decided we will talk again next week when I am feeling a bit better (was extremely exhausted yesterday from being at work all day and thinking about D14) and make plans for a third date.

So...that's the latest in DV land. Thanks again for all of your support and advice. It really means a lot to me to have all of you still reading my thread and offering me advice and encouragement (and a few 2x4's) when it is needed. Love and (((hugs))) to you all!!