I’m sorry you are having trouble sleeping. That will subside over time.
So here is what is happening with the difference in attitudes with you and your son. He doesn’t feel safe being nice to you right now. Why? Because if he’s nice to you then you are going to pursue him and then he’s going to have to hurt you again.
As far as your 180s you are asking him to judge a few months of certain behaviors against 10 years or previous behaviors. It’s going to take a really long time for him to believe this changes are real and that it is safe to be nice to you again.
So here is what is happening with the difference in attitudes with you and your son. He doesn’t feel safe being nice to you right now. Why? Because if he’s nice to you then you are going to pursue him and then he’s going to have to hurt you again.
Pure gold here. This is a natural consequence of the: "Oh he is nice to me so we have a chance! Oh no, he is being mean to me, it is over!" mentality.
You've trained him to be mean, essentially. This is why you need to focus on detachment. Because then you are even keeled no matter what he says or does. He's mean, you are even. He's nice, you are even. He takes his boat, you are even. He leaves his motorcycle there, you are even. Your excitement at any positive, and your disappointment at any negative is training him to treat you poorly because he doesn't want you to get your hopes again.
This is why I keep recommending IC. You are stuck in an action-reaction rut, and have been for many many weeks.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I totally get that point - of him being cold and aloof because when he is nice I have been very guilty of running with that to places I should not. It makes sense completely.
Please note I said I USED to want to see him frequently so he could walk away with positive emotions after our interaction rather than negative.
I don't now.
The fence work needs done. He still has more stuff at the house. He wants to come Wednesday.
I don't have the desire to see him.
I feel pretty even keeled about it. I have no anger at all. Sadness about the whole situation - rather than just him creeps in. Especially when its a night I'm not sleeping well. I don't allow it for long but I do allow it as part of letting it go. I'm at work at the moment and I'm not sad. I can say completely ambivalent. I have no desire to check my phone to see if he has texted. Not interested in anything he has to say about anything right now.
I've muted his texts. I've actually come close to blocking all calls and texts but we have unfinished business still. I have found more peace that I have muted his texts. Then rather than he interrupts my day randomly - I can check every 1-2 days to see if anything needs to be addressed on my time.
I feel good about the exercising I've been doing and I've set some new goals. I do what I want when I want. Once all his stuff is out I'll rearrange the garage. It's spring so good time... spring cleaning!!!!
I've muted his texts. I have found more peace that I have muted his texts.
Yay! I had wondered if your not muting him was more a mental hang-up or a technical one. Muting their texts was a step forward for me. It didn't stop me from seeing their texts 3-4hrs later (can you really wait 1-2 days?!), but it meant I didn't get a "ding" when I was occupied by pleasant things like a run or watching a movie or napping. Which is helpful if your goal is to detach (because you love you, and them).
I've muted his texts. I have found more peace that I have muted his texts.
Yay! I had wondered if your not muting him was more a mental hang-up or a technical one. Muting their texts was a step forward for me. It didn't stop me from seeing their texts 3-4hrs later (can you really wait 1-2 days?!), but it meant I didn't get a "ding" when I was occupied by pleasant things like a run or watching a movie or napping. Which is helpful if your goal is to detach (because you love you, and them).
YUP! The first day... not really. Mostly because I've never used that feature and wasn't sure how it really worked... LOL. However now, yeah... I think once every 24hr is all I need to check in and I think once all his stuff is gone 2 or more days would be easy at this point.
I'm really at a point where he does occupy my thoughts at times but I have no emotion... I'm like ehhh...
Everything you posted is a good start. However, until you can check your impulses around him, then you still have a lot of work to do.
Think of "Oh, ok" as being your default response. He comes over Wednesday and says: "I am giving the boat away." Your response. "Oh, ok." "OW and I road the motorcycle on Saturday because it was so nice out." "Oh, ok." "I want to go skydiving without a parachute!" "Oh, ok."
You might be freaking out inside. You might have a million emotions going on in your head. But "Oh, ok." in a deadpan manner is the outward reaction.
Eventually, the deadened emotions will follow suit with the outward. When I got really good about not reacting to my W's words and deeds, it really had profound effect on me. I started sleeping better. Eating better. Realizing there was light at the end of the tunnel. Etc.And it started to have an effect on her too. She got curious as to why I was reacting and responding differently.
I've told this story before. But one day we were out and we decided to run through a drive-thru to get lunch. I had started to get really good at all of the above with her, but she still wasn't sure if she wanted to stay or go. Anyway while we were waiting to order, she said something and then made a silly noise. Pre-BD this would have annoyed me and I would have lashed out about it even if in a mild way. I kind of chuckled to myself about the noise. And then kind of under my breath, as if she wasn't even there and I was hearing something like that on the radio, I repeated it a couple of times, and chuckled.
She literally stopped. Turned to me, looked deep into my eyes and said: "Who are you?" I just chuckled again and smiled back. Not reacting like you used to, responding to him differently, can have a huge impact.
Remember, "Oh, ok." But not in a sarcastic or dismissive way. Cheerfully. Upbeat. In a "thanks for sharing that with me" way! Even if it is something that later you are cringing about (like the examples I gave above).
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
KC, I'm afraid LH is more than likely right on the timeline. It could very well be years before your H comes out of whatever he's going through. Even if it's not years, it is at least the one year you're talking about as your cutoff. So let me ask you this- if you absolutely knew there was no chance of recon in the one year timeline you set, then what would you be doing differently right now? Because whatever the answer to that is, that's probably what you should be doing. You set this deadline and you are giving yourself anxiety over it thinking you must generate some kind of change in your H through your actions before the year passes you by. But you can't change him, and you won't, and he's not going to change himself in a year.
I realize that a year is not very long but I think that is the most time I can get before he will finalized the D. That's my deal breaker. I soul searched many days to figure what my deal breakers truly were.
I'm really making progress every day to drop the rope... I'm disconnecting more. Once he is completely moved out there will be absolutely no reason to contact - we share nothing unless he agrees to shared custody of the puppy.
Its sinking in that if he is reaching out - there is an underlying need that HE needs. Its nothing about me. I have to stay even keeled no mater what he does. Even though I shouldn't have said anything about the household chores - my tone was flat. I tried to mirror him most of the time. The only time I didn't is when I cracked a joke... attempted to crack a joke...
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So today with the text this morning... did he forget all the info I gave his on Sunday?
He probably didn't forget, he just didn't absorb the info. He doesn't care about what you say right now so probably only briefly scans over your messages. You know how when you listen to the stereo or TV and a really aggravating commercial comes on that you hate, so you turn the volume down really low? You're that annoying commercial to him right now.
I get that. Thanks for pointing that out. I just a gnat buzzing around.
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Also note how brief his messages to you are. He asked the tumor question in the most minimal way possible. Here's a challenge for you- if you answer at all, answer even shorter. In the case of this question, a simply "yes" would have sufficed as a response.
Advice taken. I will only respond in kind... and only if its something that requires a response.
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No, I think he quite literally meant what he asked. He wanted to know if the tumor would go away, period. That's it. There was no ulterior motive, no temp check, no him sitting by the phone hoping desperately that you'll reply. Sometimes things are exactly as they appear! Don't fill in the gaps with wild imaginings!
Yes - I do need to stop filling in the gaps. I have no idea what he is thinking, feeling or doing. I've gotten better at that today!
I appreciate all the advice. I will make it - with or without him.
UGH -- so its going to cost $600 to fix my 4yr old $800 Dishwasher...
For the first 10 seconds I want to text my H... and though that is a stupid thing to text him over - what in the world is he going to say or what to do for that matter. The urge passed very quickly.
I packed myself up and went Lowe's and bought a dishwasher. It's still going to be over 2 weeks before its delivered and set up install... frustrating.
I had muted my H on my phone and have only been checking once a day to see if any business matters. Well I'm going to have to unsynch my phone from my car because apparently my car did not get the message that it is NOT supposed to be giving me those texts... LOL... and of course who pops up again today??? - H.
He seems to find something mundane to contact me about nearly daily. This was about the phone bill. I answered it in 3 words!!! But, then I slipped and texted that the repair on the dishwasher was $600. He said *#%! what happened to it? I responded and told him I was at the store buying a new one.
I half halfheartedly asked if he wanted to save me $130 and install it. He said "I can on Saturday I guess". [Saturday is the agreed upon date for him to work on the fence and collect more things].
He has moved out. Has OW. Bought a house. Wants a D. AND, still can't tell me no....
I said 'nah, it will be a couple of weeks before its here and I've paid for install.
Its a beautiful day!
Seeing how its going to be another month before the woman who does my hair is allowed to be working again... I had to pick up box color at the store... I hate coloring my own hair because you can't see the back of your own head! Wish me luck. I'm spending my day off washing dishes my hand, relaxing and listening to podcasts, landscaping and using my new electric trimmer.
I am woman... hear me roar... .. you can bend me but never break me, cause it only serves to make me [Helen Ready]
UGH -- so its going to cost $600 to fix my 4yr old $800 Dishwasher...
I'm sorry to hear about your dishwasher.
Originally Posted by KitCat
For the first 10 seconds I want to text my H... and though that is a stupid thing to text him over - what in the world is he going to say or what to do for that matter. The urge passed very quickly.
Great job resisting!
Originally Posted by KitCat
I packed myself up and went Lowe's and bought a dishwasher. It's still going to be over 2 weeks before its delivered and set up install... frustrating.
Just out of curiosity if it's just you and your son do you really need a dishwasher?
Originally Posted by KitCat
He seems to find something mundane to contact me about nearly daily. This was about the phone bill. I answered it in 3 words!!!
Good! You kept it business like.
Originally Posted by KitCat
But, then I slipped and texted that the repair on the dishwasher was $600. He said *#%! what happened to it? I responded and told him I was at the store buying a new one.
Trying to keep the convo going is pursuit. Which of course never works.
Originally Posted by KitCat
I half halfheartedly asked if he wanted to save me $130 and install it. He said "I can on Saturday I guess". [Saturday is the agreed upon date for him to work on the fence and collect more things].
See my comment above.
Originally Posted by KitCat
He has moved out. Has OW. Bought a house. Wants a D. AND, still can't tell me no....
This is guilt. He wants to know you will be ok with out him.
Originally Posted by KitCat
Seeing how its going to be another month before the woman who does my hair is allowed to be working again... I had to pick up box color at the store... I hate coloring my own hair because you can't see the back of your own head! Wish me luck.
Good luck!
KK this mistakes are not game changing but your margin for error is small. You have a 1 year deadline to turn this around. That is never going to happen unless he gets curious about you. How is that going to happen when you are an open book and keep showing him how you need him?
I packed myself up and went Lowe's and bought a dishwasher. It's still going to be over 2 weeks before its delivered and set up install... frustrating.
Just out of curiosity if it's just you and your son do you really need a dishwasher?
Probably not - especially since S18 will be leaving for college in the fall. But, it is handy to have when I would have company and I'm dreaming of having some guests over. Since H worked nights and was sleeping during the day I just never had anyone over so it was quiet for him and usually 7pm was his wake up time before he would head out and not ideal to have company during that time either.
Also, I though if I'm selling the house I should have bought the $200 cheaper one BUT, I'm supposed to be moving forward like he isn't coming back ---- so with that in mind I bought nicer more expensive Bosch. Its what I wanted.
So I am seeing and planning for a future without him... GO ME!!!
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Originally Posted by KitCat
But, then I slipped and texted that the repair on the dishwasher was $600. He said *#%! what happened to it? I responded and told him I was at the store buying a new one.
Trying to keep the convo going is pursuit. Which of course never works.
This will take more time to perfect. He is just the one person I told EVERYTHING too. I've been on the right path for the most part.. weak moment on my end.
I never went to back to check if even responded to the text telling I went ahead and paid install fees. He may or may not have replied and I just don't care. I'm out there taking care of me. I'm back to only checking his texts once a day. And, at least I didn't initiate the texting back and forth... I will get better about telling him my personal business.
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Originally Posted by KitCat
He has moved out. Has OW. Bought a house. Wants a D. AND, still can't tell me no....
This is guilt. He wants to know you will be ok with out him.
I'm sure you are spot on with this one - guilt... AND, I will be okay without him. He is the one missing out on a fabulous future life we could have embarked on now that we are becoming empty nesters!!!
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KK this mistakes are not game changing but your margin for error is small. You have a 1 year deadline to turn this around. That is never going to happen unless he gets curious about you. How is that going to happen when you are an open book and keep showing him how you need him?
Point taken, printed out and highlighted. He isn't going to miss me texting me everyday. I need to stop letting him invade my life like that. I've felt very empowered muting his texts so they are not interrupting my day. Will work on where to go from there.
