wc I am going to try and help you here you stopped by my post recently and asked me a question about what my husband had said because you did not want to make same mistake. A lot has happened since, much of which I have not had opportunity to update. My sitch is very similar to yours almost exact. My H and I did not have much passion in begining and I did gain a little weight etc. But I am going to tell you that it is a joke about this passion issue, I too once had an affair with married man and it was unbelievable. But the bottom line was that sneaking and that was the huge turn on for both, when he sep it fizzled after awhile. Our r lasted 3 1/2 yrs after D. That passion is derived more often than not from the fantasy of what will be than what will actually be. Now for my H sitch. He did move out and for most part has been with OW who incidently is also M. He in last 2 weeks has been spending most of his spare time with me and at our home. He admitted that the fantasy of being together with OW full time and the reality were greatly different. Yes I have lost 20+ lbs, been going out, tanning and dating and it has driven H crazy. The truth be told we have not had a sex life for long time to speak of. He very much believed you either have passion with someone or not. Needless to say he has now addmitted that he wants to see where our R will go from here.
So I do agree with most that you are infact being selfish and self centered 2 things my H now will agree with that he has been. You have asked people who are very much in pain to try and understand the very thing that has hurt them and torn their life apart. You really do need to look at yourself at this point. Oh and by the way the OW made many promises to my H so he would sep and has now not come thru with any of them.
Perhaps you're right. I made my mind up about you too early. But, I read your posts on another thread about why you are obvious about your A and wanting to make your W the villain.
That's emotional/mental abuse, WC. Stop it. It's very passive aggressive behavior and you need to confront what it is you are doing wrong.
There have been posters here who have had As and tried to repair their marraige. D and then going to look for "true" love is dangerous to you in the long run. I can probably recite from memory every line, every evasive maneuver, every piece of bs you can dish out to justify what you are doing -- to spin the wrong into making your W look the villain. However, what we do that -- attempt to lie and avoid to make the spouse look the villain while you are the victim -- is very harmful. I was married to a guy like this. This is why we are divorced. This is not to say your W hasn't contributed to the problems in your M. It is saying that you need to own up to your own problems in that M.
How can you expect to have a good, healthy, R -- "true" love -- if you feel you must hide yourself through lies and avoidance?
For your own sake, come clean with your W. See a C, talk to someone, pick up a copy of DR and read it. Do something that is positive instead of negative. You really are feeling sorry for yourself here.
Others have given you some really good insight here. Please read it. What brings two together at the start of an R... the passion, attraction... is by design. However, what keeps you together -- "true" love -- is commitment and compassion.
What Leena pointed out is true. My ex was so "in love" with his OW that he couldn't live without her. It's a terrible relationship. I think of it as the old Aretha Franklin song -- "who's zooming who." They manipulate, lie, and bs each other now. Further, she never divorced her H even though she's shacked up with my ex. They're both emotional messes. So, for your own sake, learn from the experiences posted on this board.
BC I appreciate ur comments. I never professed to be angel. I was always honest with my posts. I know Ive done wrong. Im trying to make it right by leaving. And Im not looking for sympathy. Id have to be stupid to seek it here after telling the truth. Im simply stating my case and trying to justify why I did it, and maybe speak to sum1 who went thru or is going sumthing similar. The OW hasnt made ne promises to me. In fact shes told me she intends to stay with her H. In the end I may end up alone for a while. But its my decision. There are other issues involved that have lingered and added to my reason to leave. Nothing to do with OW. Listen if every1 can wrk the marriage..more power to you. Just dont beat up on me cause Im on the opposing team.
I don't think bk is beating up on you at all...she's just pointing out some things she has learned to be facts in the world of relationships.
as far as you being on the opposing team? I don't see how you are much different from the rest of us here cept for the fact that you are certain you don't want your marriage to contiue.
Perhaps that is what confuses most of us here...you are certain you don't want to be married to your w then why come here? other than to offer advice to those also dealing with partners involved affairs and then what purpose would that serve to you other than to turn your guilt around.
oh and since you claim that there are other "issues" involved in the m besides ow and you know that you may not end up with ow (she does after all intend to stay with her h) what are some of those issues?
Quote: ...I never professed to be angel. I was always honest with my posts. I know I've done wrong. I'm trying to make it right by leaving.
Sorry wc, but leaving doesn't right the wrong.
Did you really think you would get any sympathy on a board dedicated to saving marriages? Most of us have had a spouse do just what you did. Granted, it's been long enough that I don't give a d*mn. Mostly, I just come here to visit.
However, nothing justifys cheating on your spouse, so save your breath. If you honestly are happy with your decision, what are you doing here? I don't really want an answer. Just think about it.
Divorce or leaving isn't always the answer. I speak this from the other side of the fence. Issues that have lingered are issues you need to address and be honest about with yourself and your W.
Don't look at it as being on any "team." I in no way support divorce as a solution to any problems, although I am divorced. I divorced for many reasons, many of which were legal and some of which belonged to my ex--he demanded it because honestly, he had the same mentality you did. He did not have the faith it took in himself to address the problems in our M. I tried to hold on to that faith. We cannot make someone do that which they do not wish, and my ex had to have the D. So, he got it and wasn't happy with it that either.
The issues you may be confronting most likely have no roots in your M. Your M may have made the issues appear worse or difficult. There's no such thing as a perfect relationship where both will always be happy. Life throws crap in our paths and we have to deal with it. How we deal with it is what makes the difference.
What have you done to address the issues you have, not just to justify them? Complaining that there's a hole in the sidewalk that you always walk down, and then fall into the hole doesn't address the issue of the hole you find yourself into.
Don't seek sympathy. Seek understanding, WC. That's pretty difficult to do at times. Understand yourself and your motives. Understand that what you perceive as a lack of sympathy here is not necessarily a bad thing. Often times your greatest supporters will be those who will give you a dose of reality.
That said, what have you done for the issues you're facing? Have you picked up a copy of DR and read it? Have you seen a counselor and have been just as honest with a C as you have here? Have you talked to your wife without blame laying and with honesty? None of this says you shouldn't divorce. Sometimes, divorce is the best solution in some situations. But it's not a decision that solves the issues that contributed to your failing M, either. It just sounds to me that you're not happy or content with something in your life and seem to be afraid to confront that problem.
I think you're here trying to find some sort of justification for something you already know is wrong. "love cannot survive alongside deceit" If you think that you and the ow can have any kind of honest, trusting relationship, you're in for a surprise. If she'll do it with you, she'll do it to you. My opinion.
Each experience in life has formed me, become part of me, made me stronger.
Just wanted to say, wc, that feelings are not just something you "have" or don't have... that's part of it!... but feelings are also something you can create with the thoughts you choose to have or not have.
Illicit sex is always more passionate and fun... remember that is PART of the picture here. There are ways to put that "spirit" of eroticism and illicitness into a marriage, but few couples take the time to do it.
You are in the catbird seat, wc... because it sounds like you could have either one of these women. Your wife definitely wants you, and IF you made a full-court press on OW, I think you could have her, too. She is saying she only wants to be "friends" I know, but that's because right now (in her eyes) your just some guy who doesn't really want her, and is complicating her life with her H. And you are!
Only you can decide who you want to be with. And I TOTALLY agree with the poster who said feelings of being "in love" COME AND GO in a long relationship. Are you SURE you were really fading from your M before the OW... or are you just re-framing your M that way now, to justify your feelings for OW?
Are you really in love with OW, or is it mostly lust? You mention that you wonder if its "really love." I can help you out with that! If OW suddenly turned into a chubby 48 year old who's new religion forbade sex, would you still be interested? If not, wc... it's not love.
I did not read this entire thread before making my last post. Now that I have, I think wc has been "beat up" too harshly here. For one thing, name calling is always inappropriate on any forum, and I believe someone called you a "cheating slug" and told you to go crawl into a hole. The fact that you are STILL HERE despite that rudeness shows some strength of character, in my opinion.
First, gang... let's remember INFIDELITY WILL EVENTUALLY TOUCH 80% OF ALL MARRIAGES IN THE U.S., AT SOME TIME DURING THIER DURATION. Think about that. That means that out of every TWENTY married people in the United States, EIGHT TO SIXTEEN OF THEM WILL EVENTUALLY CHEAT! That's an awful lot of "cheating slugs" who should crawl into a hole, don't ya think? You're gonna have a lot of company in that hole, wc, and chances are you'll be down there with some of the very people who are sitting in judgement.
Some of you are accusing wc of being immature and naive, but it is also naive to take a purely "moral" view of infidelity. It is NOT just a moral issue... it is also a social/cultural issue, a psychological issue, and a BIOLOGICAL issue... Our species, especially males, are hard-wired to seek multiple sex partners and therefore pre-disposed to "cheat" in monogamous situations. By choosing a monogamous lifestyle, as our culture almost demands, we set ourselves up for failure and then agonize and point fingers when we DO fail. If it were not so painful, it would truly be comical.
The reason the infidelity rate is so high is not because 80% of the marriages out there are made up of "immoral" people, it's because monogamy goes against our biological and psychological constitution. Luckily, most people somehow "rise above" their basic nature and do not have a "chronic" problem with infidelity, but even those who do are not dense or "stupid" (Clinton, for example, is highly intelligent).
The human spirit quests for perfection, but unfortunately perfection is not a human attribute. The soul leads us down paths that bring painful conflict, so that we can learn about ourselves. We are not always supposed to solve problems quickly. Sometimes we are supposed to stay "selfishly" in limbo awhile so we can be deepened and enlightened by the tensions of our conflict, which takes TIME. Yes, sometimes remaining in an illicit situation hurts... it hurts ourselves and it hurts other people. LIFE IS A CONTACT SPORT. Life (and especially love) is not supposed to be pain free. If we did not experience pain, we would never know when we were happy!
Through my affair, I have learned important things about myself, life, love, and marriage... I have gained amazing insights that I could NEVER have gained without direct experience.
I am not saying infidelity is "okay." I am saying it is FAR from a black and white issue, and people on both sides of the fence deserve respect and support. No? Well, then , for all who still insist on seeing it as a purely moral issue, "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone."
wc, you sound like a romantic... I can always spot them, because I am one myself. You are out there searching for "true love" you say. But love is a decision and a choice, not just a "feeling." Romance is GREAT, but remember, no matter who you are with, you will eventually feel like killing them and the only thing that will stop you is not being quite sure what to do with the body.
