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For now, I would let her initiate.

You initiate when it is natural. Leading her through a crowd. Leaning in to talk when it is loud.

Ok thanks R2C. I appreciate it. Sitting on porch last night beside me. I gave her a back rub. She didn’t seem to mind. I’ll back off some

Yes back off.......she knows what she told you, she knows there has been no sex, she knows your a man and you want sex. You don’t want to come across as desperate, needy, and thirsty.

Ok thank you. I think I was getting sucked in a little. This is really difficult to mix the DBing and treating her like a cat but also the touching thing

I also don’t want to get sucked in mentally and be hit with Bd # 2. Yuk.

This all seems very tedious

One thing I always do. When we are walking in a parking lot or on a sidewalk, I will"guide" her to walk on the inside of me, away from the car traffic (in a lot), or away from the for traffic coming the other way. She feels taken care of when I do that.

Thanks Steve. That’s a good idea.

I’m trying to keep my head level. Things have been going really well. As in really well. At the same time she Bd me and she still makes a conscious decision to not say I love you and she may be msging somebody else.

It’s hard to make those things mix in my head. I think I’m still failing at gal. I think I need to try harder. I’m also still too attached I think. That’s why there is so much angst I believe

Ozman, based on the frequency of your thread changing titles, and your progress resuming successful physical contact with your partner, you're doing amazing at GAL and Detachment compared to earlier.

What did she give you in advance (or in return)?

I guess in that light you are right CW. It just doesn’t seem like much compared to others on here.

Maybe I could have so help understanding something. I had really thought I had put these feelings behind me. There is a reason I changed my thread name to onward and upward. Cause most of the time that’s where it seems like I’m headed. Ever since the concert 1 week ago. We have had physical contact several times. A few hand on the backs a few front to front hug type back poppings. A hand massage here and there. A back rub last night. Which I may have accidentally later on a little thick. Maybe. I’m not sure. It’s so small. But it’s a good thing. And I feel like crap I actually got teary eyed earlier. It’s like an improvement makes me sad. I know this is a long road. And I’m only 2.5 months in. But it’s hard to be still.


R2C just saw yours so I’m editing this to reply.

She was wincing. Her back is in constant pain. She sat down beside me on porch. I just reached over and started. She was enjoying it (easy to tell). I worked my way down her her arm to her hand. I was there for a bit and then she said “I have to go put S in bed”. And got up and left. Whole massage lasted maybe 5 min. She didn’t initiate. I guess my bad

As long as you had no intentions or expectation, I think it is OK.


There is a balance on doing things. Women score things different than men,

You get more points for 10 five minute back rubs than 1 two hour back rub.


This is how things SHOULD be in a healthy relationship:

W:"Will you do this and that for me"
H:"Yes, Would you make your yummy fried chicken for dinner?"