I do agree, tread carefully. I did temp check and its clear its hugging for now. Given she was anxious about being lonely I hope its not a case of just wanting to fill that immediate void. I can only go by her behaviour and it suggests wanting reconciliation, but of course it must be sustainable. If it goes on for at least a month, and there is stready improvement, I'd say its genuine.
We have her birthday dinner coming up and I feel that some R stuff will come up. If it does I can be honest that I'm still a bit uncertain but also positive we are able to get there.
Let's say I'm wrong. She's warming me up so she can buy more time for another Plan A. Would the recommendation be full DB? Ease up slighlty as improvements are noticed? Or do what i plan to, validate, 180, and show small signs of pursuing.
I didn't react too much nor get excited. I validated what she said. I replied I never knew she felt that way, and it filled me with hope. She cried, we hugged. And I said that we require a new relationship, and it must be different otherwise there is no new relationship. I explained I needed respect. I needed to be vulnerable, and we need to rebuild slowly. I also admitted I was a s*ty husband. My inability to be vulnerable was because of passive-aggressive behaviour due to not standing up and expressing myself. And we never prioritised our relationship and that must change.
Weren't you advised in the previous thread that if she took this direction, not to lay out all that stuff?
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It seems she had a revelation.
Oh, ple---ease! She's playing you, Josh.
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All I can say is that this came about after five solid, hard days of DB. I can't tell you how hard it was to look her in the eye and say "No I'm not obliged to do that, you fired me as husband".
And, ^^^^^^ that's why she's testing your emotional temperature to the relationship. Five days is only a challenge for her. All she has to do is put on a little performance, and wham......she has you in the palm of her hand. I should have shipped you some duct tape to put over your mouth. Better yet, whenever a WW asks for dinner so you can talk.......that should be a giant red flag waving a warning. She already had her script memorized.
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And we are in separate bedeooms. That might not ever change since we comfortable with not common view to keep separate rooms but come together for sex.
I think I've previously commented on the topic of separate bedrooms except when using for sex, so I won't get into that part. However, it would seem to me, that if she felt lonely and genuinely wanted a better MR, she would have been moving someone's things back into the marital bedroom. If you've been comfortable with having separate bedrooms for a considerable length of time, I think it could be challenging to readjust. Maybe it's a difference in viewpoints, but I think women need more than just the sex act. They need to feel that intimate closeness after sex has ended, while lying in her H's arms.
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I will consider it a true start when I see consistent respect, frequent sex, regular time together, and couples therapy.
^^^^^^^^^That's usually the result of a lot of hard work, but I get what you are saying. At this point, her willingness is the fuel that will get the engine running. Without willingness, it won't get off the ground.
I encourage you to observe three things in her during the coming days/weeks........attitude, words and behavior. When they match, then you will likely be able to determine if she meant what she said at the dinner conversation, or if she simply gave you a temperature check. If she wasn't serious, it won't take long to see that old wayward rebellion, disrespect, and selfishness rearing its ugly head.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Birthday dinner - don't be the one to bring up R stuff. Let her enjoy her dinner. If she brings it up, her choice. You don't want to be the one who ruined her birthday by bringing up an uncomfortable topic. Be fun, be happy, give her a night to forget about what's going on. Just my 2 cents.
Originally Posted by Josh_T
Let's say I'm wrong. She's warming me up so she can buy more time for another Plan A. Would the recommendation be full DB? Ease up slightly as improvements are noticed? Or do what i plan to, validate, 180, and show small signs of pursuing.
Wrong way to look at - do you see why? You start off making an assumption about what your W is thinking, and then trying to plan around it. I guarantee you have zero clue what she is thinking. The whole point of DB is to break out of the pattern of trying to please your partner.
There really is no such thing as "full DB" - I think people here confuse LRT and DB sometimes and it drives me a little bonkers. It's really easy for newbies to jump straight into "full DB" and turn ice-cold and rigid. Being kind and warm is different from pursuit and pressure, you can still be a pleasant person to be around. DB is not "completely distance yourself and become cold" - think of loving detachment. When your W decides to turn back towards you, you will know. You can still be there for her and love her, but I would cut out the pursuit and pressure.
Thank unchien. Yeah, I had a hard time sorting out DB, LRT, and the balance. Spot on hard for NGS to find out the balance, we take it literally. I feel I have the right balance now. And yeah, I'm not bringing up any R conversations. That's her call. We said what was said last week.
FWIW, I'm not planning on her thinking of a plan A. It was just a question I threw out to see what you all think. In fact, I'm approaching it as her NOT having a plan A and that we both need to take time to explore how we can be back together. And that is precisely how I feel ATM. I already made it clear what I want and if R comes up again, I will remind her. There is no half-way, it's all or nothing. And I think continuing to GAL, and validate, and stay out of NGS are strong ways to remind her I do mean business. Which is where my head is at.
The only thing that has really changed is, a bit more hugging, a bit more time together, fewer delays in responding to emails and texts, and her thanking and apologising a bit more. AND THAT IS IT. I'm still going out. I'm still doing things. I'm still rejecting some time together because I'm busy. My mind is still fine with it going either way.
I plan to wrap up my IC tomorrow but we'll see that stands given all that has happened. I like how you all here have no problems with a blunt 2x4 to remind us what to do.
I didn't react too much nor get excited. I validated what she said. I replied I never knew she felt that way, and it filled me with hope. She cried, we hugged. And I said that we require a new relationship, and it must be different otherwise there is no new relationship. I explained I needed respect. I needed to be vulnerable, and we need to rebuild slowly. I also admitted I was a s*ty husband. My inability to be vulnerable was because of passive-aggressive behaviour due to not standing up and expressing myself. And we never prioritised our relationship and that must change.
Weren't you advised in the previous thread that if she took this direction, not to lay out all that stuff?
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It seems she had a revelation.
Oh, ple---ease! She's playing you, Josh.
Quote
All I can say is that this came about after five solid, hard days of DB. I can't tell you how hard it was to look her in the eye and say "No I'm not obliged to do that, you fired me as husband".
And, ^^^^^^ that's why she's testing your emotional temperature to the relationship. Five days is only a challenge for her. All she has to do is put on a little performance, and wham......she has you in the palm of her hand. I should have shipped you some duct tape to put over your mouth. Better yet, whenever a WW asks for dinner so you can talk.......that should be a giant red flag waving a warning. She already had her script memorized.
Quote
And we are in separate bedeooms. That might not ever change since we comfortable with not common view to keep separate rooms but come together for sex.
I think I've previously commented on the topic of separate bedrooms except when using for sex, so I won't get into that part. However, it would seem to me, that if she felt lonely and genuinely wanted a better MR, she would have been moving someone's things back into the marital bedroom. If you've been comfortable with having separate bedrooms for a considerable length of time, I think it could be challenging to readjust. Maybe it's a difference in viewpoints, but I think women need more than just the sex act. They need to feel that intimate closeness after sex has ended, while lying in her H's arms.
Quote
I will consider it a true start when I see consistent respect, frequent sex, regular time together, and couples therapy.
^^^^^^^^^That's usually the result of a lot of hard work, but I get what you are saying. At this point, her willingness is the fuel that will get the engine running. Without willingness, it won't get off the ground.
I encourage you to observe three things in her during the coming days/weeks........attitude, words and behavior. When they match, then you will likely be able to determine if she meant what she said at the dinner conversation, or if she simply gave you a temperature check. If she wasn't serious, it won't take long to see that old wayward rebellion, disrespect, and selfishness rearing its ugly head.
I like what this reply touches upon. Want to find out real fast who and what it's all about? Let some time go by. If you ever do get to that point where she wants to sit down and talk with you. Gently bring up all the things that she did you wrong in the relationship. If she listens and understands and accepts them with humility what you're saying, takes accountability and responsibility for it? Still continue to watch her actions and use only her words as just a token of an olive branch of good faith. If she turns the conversation back onto herself or is appalled that you would bring those things up again, then she's only there to serve her needs for the immediate time being, and is still rooted in selfishness.
Hmm. Certainly the seed of doubt has been cast. There has been no desire for kissing (I temp checked that) or moving back into the MBR. I just can't help but think Sandi is right. W likes the easy way out. But I have to take what she said and, ok, I said all those things.
She still mentions about getting back together. But then she also talked about me being out too much. She corrected herself and said but that's ok. Funny that. There is a lot more hugging and chats about her feelings. But not much else so far. Never any questions about how I feel. In fact she never really has. My feelings atm is slightly optimistic but cautious and very uncertain. And that's what I'll say when asked.
To be clear, she pre-empted dinner with "a chat". I guess it was killing her. So the dinner is yet to come. I do agree to watch behavior. So far so good, but she could be just guarded. Too early I guess. I'd give it a full month.
I feel right now I need to just observe. But if I feel she goes back to old ways its hard db again.
Josh, we've seen it before where the WAW wants to keep Plan B firmly in place until a solid Plan A comes along. sandi is clear, lack of passionate kissing mean something is still amiss.
It sounds like she has you squarely in the friendzone.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
You have a good point and I'm aware it could be a false start. However I haven't seen any behaviour to suggest plan A is still on her mind.
Is she back in the bedroom? Asking to go to MC with you and making those arrangements herself? Initiating sex? No, because you are Plan B. Plan A for her right now might be a real person or a fantasy person she dreams about, but the bottom line is it's not you. I'm not trying to crush your hopes, just temper your expectations. You are seeing some positive signs and that's good. But it is too soon to expect this to be a significant turnaround. Stick to your DB'ing.
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Early days, yes, but I trust my gut here.
You can't trust your gut. Trust us. We've seen these situations play out many more times than your gut has
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It is possible I'm way off but I also feel less resentment, she apologised again for other recent behaviour, and she talked about how we can spend more time together. She also put her rings on, something that was a proxy for her feelings since BD. I also feel she has been conversing with her friends. In fact one had a strange comment for me about how I've changed and I appear to be in a better place. They talk, W and her friends. So ATM I'm seeing signs that this is genuine.
Great! Like Michele says, celebrate the baby steps! But celebrate them internally while continuing to DB externally.
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To me, sex will seal the deal, as it was a major issue for years.
If sex does happen then just be careful not to drop your guard and go into full blown pursuit mode. A lot of LBS's make the mistake of thinking sex means their spouse has done a 180 on leaving the M when in fact it often means nothing more than physical release to the WAS, or may even be them just getting Plan B to toe the line again.
I think y'all is right. No kissing at all. I tried but it was clearly wasn't reciprocal. And She hasn't initiated. My gut says she isn't genuine or not willing to work on it. I'm still alone in MBR and she certainly has not mentioned MC.
I now believe she panicked because I firmly said I'm not supporting her. Steve, you could be right. She has no plan A but wants on, yet feels guilty about busting the family. The more I think about it, she is still taking her ring off after work. She only started doing that after a few arguments post BD. As far as I recall the ring was only on this w/e because it was my sons birthday party. But don't recall if it was proxy ring or real ring. I need to pay more attention to see if she's really wearing the real wedding ring to work or proxy ring. And if she wears this w/e. That would say it all. But I'm analyzing too much.
I feel I should start going back to hard db first thing tomorrow. I'm not in the mood for games. Yeah, if she really wanted to come back there would have been obvious signs. Nothing has changed has there?
There is a family birthday dinner for W in two days though. Hard DB means I don't do it. Man not sure I can do that.
She's playing you, Josh.