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I second everything that DnJ says here! That is the point of the litany/novena we are doing. You don't have to tell God that you hate his plan. You just have to keep walking in faith that he will enable you, in any storm, including this one, to have all the fruits he wants you to have, the ones that DnJ lists -- patience, forgiveness, love, etc. You think you are going to have peace with a divorce, but a divorce is not going to change your feelings. Don't let your grief harden your heart. Just feel the grief, it's okay! It's your cross right now! Even if you got a divorce tomorrow, it won't make the pain go away. It will just let you get some kind of revenge on your H, but that will never satisfy you in the long run.

I might stop in again tonight, praying for you and with you! Delay all actions, like DnJ is saying. Instead of taking actions, just pray. Try the psalsm, just read one out loud every time you want to go on social media or tell your H what you really think.

DnJ, Job, Gerda - Thank you for your care, compassion, and support during my storm. Last night I really didn't think I could go on with Standing. I wanted (still want) to tell H I know. I think I will in due time, but not out of my anger, despair, or embarrassment. It will be out of compassion and at a time when he might be receptive to begin his healing process. I am praying for God's wisdom, for him to speak to me, and for me to hear him so that I may proceed according to His will.

I think I'm just now learning what standing really means. I might still end up D, and I think it's likely I will some day, but Standing means hope that our loved one will heal, and maybe, just maybe, it will allow us to heal our M. But, Standing also is for Me, to also heal, and become the person that was lost so long ago. I've been thinking about doing a mission trip, or participate in Doctors without Borders. This is something I gave up long ago because H was not supportive.

Something will have to happen soon, I think. He has to find another place to live at the end of April. I foresee a discussion about us before then, if not initiated by him, then by me.

KML and OneARt - I am heeding your advise, and have an appointment next week to get tested for STDs. I haven't had sex with H (or anyone else) since January 2018, so i'm probably clean, but I know some stay dormant, especially HIV and HPV, so I'm getting the whole nine yards worth of testing.


Gerda - thanks for your prayers. It means so much. I will have Psalms at the ready. I'm sure it will be well read over the next few days to few weeks.

Hugs to all for being there for me. I don't know what I'd do without all of you.

My mind has calmed a bit over the last few days. Not to say my latest discovery isn't constantly in the back of my mind all the while I'm getting on with life, working, etc, but, it doesn't have the hold on me it did even just yesterday.

Now that the shock is over, I've been looking at Hs behavior throughout the last several years especially, but really through our entire marriage. He always said we never had a deep emotional or sexual connection. That's probably true.

But, I don't think it's for the reasons he says it is. The more I find out about his activities, and the more I think about how he buried himself in hobbies, I don't think he was ever capable of a deep emotional connection with me, or anyone (no matter he thinks his OWs were his "soul mates". " How could I ever compete with all the excitement porn and his activities gave him? And the more he got into it, the less he had to give at home. He states he is full of guilt and shame for "what he's done". But he thinks I only know of the OWs. Knowing what I know now, I'm sure the guilt and shame is quite profound. He had to keep pursuing more, upping the anty, to get anything out of it, I would imagine. There was absolutely nothing left to give me. He avoided intimacy at all costs. He can't face me. He doesn't want me to know the real him.

I didn't have a chance. Although I contributed to some unhealthy aspects to our M, where I am now is not my fault. This I am certain of.

So, that's my take on it. It's sad, so very sad. I am a warm, compassionate, caring person. Heck, I still have compassion and care for my sick H. I have a lot to give someone. It's a shame H won't receive it.

I am going to take my trip with my kids to see the folks and my sister, and clear my head. When I get back, I'm going to get the STD test out of the way, and I've made an appointment with a 2nd attorney. Just to ask a few questions and establish whether I think they would work out if I need an attorney. I don't plan to file anything.....yet.

But, I do think in April I will ask to meet to ask directly if he plans to get a place with OW. I have a right to know, so I can make my own decisions on how I want to proceed with all the facts. If he does, I will probably start D proceedings. And have a discussion with my kids about it.

Those are my thoughts for now. They could change, for sure. Lord knows I'm on the rollercoaster of my life.

It's anybody's guess what tomorrow will bring.

In spite of it all, my life is good!

Hi Grace

You sound better. And yes you are a warm, compassionate, and caring person.

Good for you getting tested and making an appointment to see a second L. Information is power and really important to pushing away denial.

A few observations and maybe even one small change.


I am glad you are waiting until April. Your feelings probably will change.

Asking him about his plans to get a place with OW puts him on the spot where he has to answer you. Of course you know how shamed he is, so he is going to say yes, to save face, to justify his position, you can’t really know if it is true.

Another thing that question does is place that idea in his scrambled brain. If he wasn’t thinking about moving in with her, he sure will be after your inquisition.

So, what about an answer of No. Can you believe him? You know he can manipulate, lie, cheat, etc... You really cannot believe either answer.

I was thinking about “your right to know”. Why do you think that? Does he have the right to know your plans? The plans for divorce for example?

We had a privilege of knowledge with our spouses, before all this mess. It was a privilege, even in the greatest times of our marriages our spouses still at their rights to keep their thoughts private.

Hopefully not to harsh there. Talking to MLCers is really a honey vs vinegar kind of a thing.

You can probably guess the small change I want to suggest.


Let me start at the back. You will never have all the facts. You will never have all the story. He doesn’t even know the facts or story, they are changing all the time for him.

You make your own decisions based on your beliefs, values, and convictions. Do not based your decisions on whatever he says about moving in with OW. Besides is H moving in with OW really the final straw?

There are some behaviours that you must take action with - abuse, theft, credible threats, and so on. A foolish husband, who doesn’t realize what a fantastic wife he had, moving in with an OW. Bah, he is not worth you getting all bent out of shape. Keep to your path, all things will come in time.

Just some hopefully thought provoking ideas for considering. You know your situation best. Ensure you are responding, and not reacting. And as always do what is best for Grace, deep inside her compassionate heart. You may not know what that is yet. It took me a while and a lot of counter-intuitive advice to follow, before I found out.

You are worthy to know yourself before you leap.

DnJ

As always, thanks for the thought provoking response DnJ. I am struggling between “what’s the point of telling H what I know about him” to “I want him to know I know all the ugly things about him, and why he feels such shame, but I still am here to help in in spite of it if he wants my help”. But, is that a mask for “I want him to know how terrible he treated me, and to hurt him by letting him know I know his darkest secrets”. This last part scares me. It’s not in my nature to be mean on purpose. And, I’m afraid he would then permanently end his pain. I can’t even say the word. I couldn’t live with myself if I thought I was the cause of that.



When I found out about OW and asked him about it, he stated she was pressing him to buy a place with her, but he was resisting. Isn’t that something I should know about? The idea is already in his head, and I’d be surprised if the pressure wasn’t still on. Is it better to just let it unfold on it’s own accord, and then make a decision once HE’s made a decision?


Actually, yes, I think he would have a right to know if that is what I decide to do. I would have a discussion with him before I had any papers drawn up. I would hope we can do it through mediation. So yes, as long as we are still married, I believe I do have a right to know if he plans to shack up with someone else.



I don’t come on the forum to worry about advice that may seem harsh. I am looking for real advice that is helpful in interacting with H and getting me through this crisis. Advice to let me see other perspectives when I am blind by my hurt and despair. And yes, sometimes I just want compassion and “I’m sorrys”. Sometimes there is no advice to give or receive.



Very true. But I can imagine it will be extremely difficult (impossible?) to repair a M when H can’t come clean even with himself and deal with it all. Maybe that’s partly why I am standing. That my prayers are answered and he will decide he wants to heal so he can live the rest of his life happy, with or without me. I have compassion enough in me to help him through it IF he choses to let me. Even if we can ever live as husband and wife again



Probably.



Isn’t exposing me to STDs and emotionally abandoning me abuse? Something I’ve thought about a bit. I don’t feel “abused”. But, that’s often the case with the recipient of abuse, isn’t it? I’ve been doing a lot of soul searching about this. I’m working on how to forgive him for this. I need to find full forgiveness for this, so I can move forward. Not to excuse it.

Thankful for my work to keep my mind off of things.

It’s exhausting.

Hi

seems you have been going through quite a lot-Im sorry for your pain-

This is just my opinion and each of us has to choose the best direction for our situation and while many situations are alike there are also differences
I can only share my experience and hope with you-

I would put a lot of energy on the attorney and find out what your rights are and protect your assets and property and accounts-
Because the MLC has addictions in place, there is no guarantee they wont blow through all the money
The people they choose will also help them spend-
My XH spent quite a bit and I was very shocked and unaware

Knowing what I know now that would be my first focus

After that I would continue as you are healing, forgiving, seeking therapy, prayer, support
and grieving for this horrible mess

I would ask the attorney advice on what H can spend in regards to OW and new home ect..
I would ask attorney advice on how to proceed
but I would not ask H much

After a while It becomes more of a business deal with the MLC-You cant stop them no matter how nice or mean or real you are

You can be supportive and cordial- but he will continue exploring in the direction away from you-

and my experience would say- take 100% care of you--let him go--
put him on a shelf..no talks.. keep it simple
nothing you say will make him shift and may send him closer to OW-
Pray to let him go for now
work thru your grief/pain and only then will you have the ability to truly forgive and see the situation clearly for what it is

Letting GO is not giving up- letting go frees the other to live their life without judgement or advice from us-

Letting go frees us to begin our healing journey..

I posted on Marina thread an awesome story about letting go and detaching
its a good read from author and Coda expert Melanie Beattie if you care to read it-

AS you know, there are no easy fixes in the land of MLC

All the best,

Good Morning Grace

I know you are doing a lot of inner searching. You have some very well thought of responses.


I remember this time. Yes, the wanting to hurt our spouse for all they did to us. I also didn’t like the vindictive retribution I wanted to unleash upon her. And the thought of their ending of their pain. These are very real concerns for an LBS.

The hard advice - let him go. Do not interfere with his journey, it is futile. Let him walk his path, he needs to, he is driven to. Let karma and life challenge him, and force him to grow. You walk your path, and have no hand in his downfall, he can own it all.



When my W blew up and moved in with OM that night, I and our kids had no idea. Did I have a right to know? Let’s say yes. Ok, she didn’t tell me until she was leaving. But what about my rights? I have a right to know!! So what to do when she doesn’t tell me.

I learned I don’t have a right to anyone’s thoughts or feelings. A good relationship has two people sharing with each other.

Your H is an adolescent right now, and he is going to be secretive. He doesn’t want you knowing his whereabouts or actions. MLC is not a normal relationship problem, it is a psychological problem with our errant spouses. In a more rational situation, with someone more stable, yes talking with them would have different results. It just doesn’t work like that with MLC.

So how about this. Yes you have rights in marriage - you need to let go of those too. Let this unfold on its own.


I so desired to repair my M. Now as I stand at the brink of our divorce I actually see and believe (and I really didn’t before), our marriage is dead, it is over. The dream took quite some time to let go of. If W ever reaches out, and I am still standing or willing, we would need to start a new relationship.

W and I, everything we had is destroyed. There was nothing but ruin, dust, and ash. Cleaning away the debris I found my strong foundation and built upon that. Standing, letting go, indifference, compassion, forgiveness - it is all for you.


STD - I really was p!ssed off the day I had to get tested. Sitting there, rubber hose around my arm, young nurse reading over the order and reason for the sample. Arrrr. I just wanted to tell her this is not from my behavour, I am a faithful loyal husband. And the abandonment- oh yes. That takes a while to accept and forgive.

Are you and I the recipients of abuse? Probably.

Possible exposure to STD and the abandonment has already happened. Have to work to find acceptance to that.

Going forward - boundaries. Don’t let H cross your boundaries and inflict further damage.

I love your headings - compassion and forgiveness. You can, and I believe will, find them. You need to focus on you and not on H and his plans or actions. Ensure your security and keep moving forward.

DnJ

Yes, it's abusive.



Yes, this! Just because you seem more comfortable financially right now because he's paying the bills, doesn't mean it's safe. I've seen many LBSs here find out later that their WAS his finances from them, ran up debts in their name, drained savings accounts of kids' college accounts etc. Consult with an attorney and find out how to protect yourself financially. This is job number one. You can't count on him not to make very bad decisions financially and at your age it would be very difficult to recover from. Protect your share of the assets and also find out what your financial picture in divorce will likely look like so you can begin to make plans. In fact, there's an argument to be made for divorcing sooner rather than later, while he's still feeling guilty and possibly more inclined to offer you a good deal. (And remember, a divorce is just a piece of paper, a business transaction - nothing about being divorced would keep him from coming back IF he was so inclined.)

Also - if he DOES show signs of wanting to come back - don't settle for less than him going to a full on 12 step sex addiction program.If he's not willing to do that and confront his demons you would never be able to trust him again.

Don't put your life on hold for him, whatever you do. Get out there and LIVE. You have no control over whether he comes to his senses or not and you shouldn't waste precious years focusing on him when you could be out there living your dreams. A lot of space opens up when our spouses leave to do things we couldn't before. What do you dream of doing? What dreams have you deferred because of him?

I appreciate your advice. I think I've been very savvy in this department. I've run credit checks on him. I have printout of all our investments latest statements. My kids college funds are secure too. I've even ran all the numbers for how much alimony I will need to keep the house. All bills are collected, itemized, etc. I've looked into health ins. with my job (I'm under his now). The only component is his retirement with his job. That's the biggest. I only have the year end statement, and no access to it. So that's my biggest concern and most important item I need to freeze. So, seeing an attorney about this is my last step.




I agree 100%.

So, it feels good to start formulating a plan and make a few decisions. I have another week before I see the attorney, so I can do a little more research.

I have a question for anyone (in the U.S.) that froze assets prior to filing for D. Can you write in it an agreement on how much money we are allowed to take out of our joint account each month (where our paychecks still go)? It's a question for the attorney, but just trying to write this all out in advance on how I would like it to look.


DnJ - I will heed your advice. "let him go. Do not interfere with his journey, it is futile. Let him walk his path, he needs to, he is driven to. Let karma and life challenge him, and force him to grow. You walk your path, and have no hand in his downfall, he can own it all."

It makes perfect sense.

I am going to add strong to my list of qualities! 😊

You can contract for anything that does not violate public policy (e.g. in my state you can do a separation contract, but you can't contract to divorce; I couldn't contract with someone that they would give up their constitutional rights; let me kill them, etc.). But you should be good about a temporary agreement about how much you guys can each take until there are final orders in your case. But yes, always check with an attorney licensed in your jurisdiction and experienced in the law at issue (but avoid generalists like the plague--jack of all trades; master of none).