Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers MLC, WAS, or both

That's a good approach, IF it isn't motivated by:
That's NGS in a nutshell. It's not good, at all, unless:
Why not? Try to answer that question, really. Then challenge your answer(s). "Are you sure of your perceptions?" If the answer is because of keeping the peace, you're doing it wrong. And: it never really got to YOU. But who else may have been affected by it, hmm?
I had a similar experience and I'm told it's not uncommon. They DB you back. But they don't see it from the same perspective. My informed conclusion, based on readings from other books (mostly books about coping with D), is that they experience a huge relief from the guilt when you're not shoving it in their faces. It means nothing in terms of progress NOW, but it's an important early step in setting the stage for what might happen.

I guess by "never really got to me" I might mean, "never really stuck with me". Because shortly all would be well and it was forgotten by me. I wasn't resentful that W was this way sometimes. But of course it was hurtful in the moment, and I did definitely ignore it in an effort to keep the peace. W is this way with most people in her life, and it's something she needs to address. She doesn't like this part of her, but has always been this way.



I do think this is a temporary relief of guilt that I'm not fighting her, or inquiring in ANY way about OW. Can you share some resources or insight as to what you mean about it "setting the stage for what might happen"? I'm getting the sense that W is burying the shame and guilt very deep, and enjoying the relief now. Perhaps this delays her ever getting to the "other side"? I wonder if her new life in NH is a good enough distraction that she won't fully process whatever she needs to go through. That makes me sad. If her new job is great, she could rationalize that it really was me all along making her unhappy.

By this I mean the stuff we talk about here about the WW and respect. The sooner you start being a bad@ss (I guess we can't use the "take back your b@lls" metaphor here), the sooner she will start to respect you again. And respect precedes attraction. And you will respect yourself, because you won't let fear of conflict stop you from getting what you want from life.
With all due respect. Having grown up in a neighboring state and now living in another neighboring state, I can say with reasonable certainty that there's nothing good about NH, and I'd be fine if it sank into the ocean along with its "state with the shortest coastline" distinction. RI can go, too. Good riddance. :P

I came into the kitchen to bake off a Thanksgiving food item to bring to my cousin's. W was there. I muttered out loud to myself how I wondered if I should switch my baking pan. W suggested I use the cast iron skillet (she's a chef). I half jokingly said, "aaaand you're telling me how to do it again". She responded "Yep, that's still the problem".

It's something we've circled in conversations recently: she tells me how to do things, I repeatedly ask her to stop, that I am a capable human. She fully acknowledges that it's a problem and that she just has such a strong instinct to protect me and to take care of me that she wasn't letting me be a full person. This was a major issue. It's not that I didn't stand up for myself in these instances - I would just repeatedly respond that my way was also an okay way to do things, it was just different. Most times she'd catch herself and agree, but it was such an ingrained pattern she just couldn't stop. I don't know how it got so bad, it seems a more recent (last few years) development. It wasn't something we'd fight over, it was just like a broken record of me reminding her I can do things differently. I wonder if there's some control issue she's fighting that has come into play here that I never realized.

To change the subject she commented on a package of pasta sitting on the counter. We had bought it in Italy with the kind of fake intent of enjoying it together. Clearly, that's not going to happen, but I can't bring myself to eat it on my own right now. So she says pleasantly, "oh! I'm surprised you haven't had the pasta!". I respond, "oh, well, i haven't eaten much pasta". "But you love pasta!". At this point I'm just on the brink of tears because ... well I don't know exactly why, but it's just that I'm still so sad this is happening and I cry at the drop of a hat at weird things. I'm preparing for R conversations where I stay stoic when she asks for a D, but it's these little conversations of how we used to be that throw me. I really need to go out for a walk today but I don't think holiday schedule will allow before dark.

W notices that my voice breaks and that I've turned my back to her and politely excuses herself to go do things around the house so I'm not uncomfortable.

Journaling

Some things are clicking into place. I was rereading my original post about how I shut down when W wanted to talk about moving. Was thinking about how she was always the "doer" around the house and complained I wasn't a full partner in some of these tasks. Last piece of the puzzle is that every time I went to do something, it was "wrong" (see latest post).

To a certain degree W and I have touched on how these are all connected. She never "allowed" me to participate in some areas, so I eventually stopped trying and just was along for the ride of living a very coddled life with W at the helm. She wants to be in charge? Okay. Go ahead. She makes good choices generally, and if I felt differently I'd speak up. She knows this was a problem, but couldn't seem to stop. But just now it really HIT me how connected these all are. I was not a full partner because every time I would do something it would be different than how she would do it, and it would be "wrong". So she'd just do it.

This pulled over into our conversation about moving. I didn't have enough confidence in myself about how to be a full person in a new environment (new job, new friends, new life, leaving family) so I resisted. I hadn't tested my muscles in being a full person in myself.

W does know this is on her to change her piece of the dynamic (or, has expressed it in the past). I wonder how this plays out in her mind, if she really realizes, or just on the surface. I see now my part of the dynamic.

May I offer some constructive feedback? Based on what I’ve learned in the past few months, because you sound so much like me...

Your W doesn’t consider you a full partner because she doesn’t see you taking any initiative. Sure, she is strong and dominant, and the easiest thing to do is let her lead, sit back and relax.

They resent that. They want someone who can stand up and grab some of the power. You can’t share it until you take some power back. But you can’t negotiate power sharing without some conflict. There’s the problem. She WANTS you to be a full partner. She doesn’t communicate it well, apparently. So stand up and do something. She WILL respect you for it. She might grumble and grouse but that’s part of what YOU have to learn to tolerate in order to get what you want in the long run. Conflict avoidance is a way to minimize discomfort in the present regardless of how it will affect you long-term. Lazy. Stop borrowing from the future to make things easier now. Accept responsibility! Take action.

And on that note, no, it is NOT on her to change the dynamic. In her own way, she has tried and feels that she failed. Now it’s on YOU.

You are a human being with goals, dreams, strengths. Don’t run from life, jump into it.

Hey burned

I agree, but I also feel it's too late. She feels it's too late. And now that she's moved states and taken the other job, there isn't in my view a way to show her slowly that I'm changing into a better me. I'm tired of this [censored] too! (show, not tell. I know that part!)

Haven't gotten the D speech yet, but we've barely been in the same house for 2 seconds together. I still anticipate it this weekend. And I still think she's WW based on the fact that she had a ()#)$* A. Which is NOT okay. And I didn't react "big" enough when I found out, but in my mind..would a reaction have made her sorry? No? Then what's the point.

She does want me to be a full partner, but she has exhausted herself in asking. She asked in her language, not one I "heard". We should have been in MC so, so long ago.

the only place I see to potentially show my power is within the D proceedings, potentially. We will see.

Never too late. You need to be a better person one way or the other. Too late for her? Maybe. Never say never. And as for “she won’t be able to see it,” we’ve all felt that. They “see” more than we realize, but if they don’t, their loss.
Frickin’ A right it’s not OK. CHANNEL THAT ANGER! She’s a WW. Now, I wouldn’t tolerate anyone saying this about my W, but WTF, she’s a gigantic b’tch who d’cked you over because she figured she could get away with what she did, because you’re so nice you’d be able to get over it. Or something. Ffffffffffuuuuuuuk that. And ffffuuuuuuuuuuk her. Yes, you love her. But NOBODY treats you like that and gets away with it. So, how do you not let them get away with it?
Yup, I too regret not having been MUCH tougher as soon as possible. Oh well. And you don’t want to try to make her sorry. You don’t care if she’s sorry. You care that you don’t deserve that bullsh’t and you don’t have the time or the energy to spare for people who treat you like that. You’re better than that. You don’t give a second thought to people like that. You live your life and you move on. THEN if she ends up being sorry, so be it. But it’s not your goal to make her feel anything.
Shoulda, woulda. Too late. My W suggested MC a month or two before her A started. I had no idea what was in her head. I said, I’m not sure that’s really necessary. She said, oh, OK, and I never heard about it again. Then the A, and now here we are. Is that how a person of strength and integrity addresses their problems with someone they want to be their full partner? So, don’t lie to yourself. She WANTED you to be her full partner. Now she doesn’t, and the harder you try to be her full partner, the faster she’ll run. It’s backwards and painful but it’s the reality right now and the sooner you accept that the better your chances will be of influencing how this plays out. Not controlling, but influencing.
And again, same here. But maybe that’s not true. You’ve convinced yourself that there will be D proceedings. That’s not a guarantee yet. And even if there are, they don’t happen overnight. And UNTIL there are any, GAL like an insane person. You can’t do 180s that fast and you won’t change her mind that fast. But the sooner she sees you getting ready to live a happy life without her. Or even better, living a happy life without her NOW, the better your chances will be. She sees you telling her, yourself, and the world that Yail isn’t someone anyone fks with. She respects herself. And if she respects herself, then maybe Yail’s W will start to respect her a bit. And that’s the beginning. At least, that’s what I’m told. It’s a lot easier to say to someone else than to tell it to yourself.

W asked for a divorce just now.

She had been home as of Wednesday, but we hadn't seen each other much so this morning was the first appropriate time we were both at home with a few moments. She came into the back room I was knitting in, sat down with a glass of water, and asked if now was a good time to talk. I indicated it was, put all my things down and moved to a seat closer to her and watched and listened. She waited to see if I had anything I wished to say first, but after a moment I indicated that I understood she had wished to speak, and she did.

It was all very to the point and calm, though she was sniffling a little during it and her voice was unsteady. I did not cry as feared, and worked on just patiently listening. She didn't say much that warranted a response, so I was largely silent.

W:"So, I think it's time we proceed with a divorce."
I nod, likely say something like "ok".
W: "I guess what I'm saying is....I've come to my decision"
me: "Okay. I hear you that this is what you want and what you feel is best".

It wasn't perfect, but I had to be more silent for myself. I knew it was coming, she knew I knew it was coming, and I didn't have any arguments to give. To be honest I'm not sure what reasons in her mind she's giving herself for wanting the divorce. Is she rationalizing that it's me? It's her? I may not ever know.

She said that she'd like to proceed after the holidays, so there will be many more chats about logistics and how we do this. Previously she had been staying in a furnished month-to-month apartment. The past few days she has been packing a few items from the house (all are "hers", and I haven't said anything about it). W: "I know you've noticed I'm gathering a few more things. I've just rented a year long apartment in (town out of state). I haven't taken anything you'll miss". This is true, I've glanced over what she is taking. I don't want to be taken advantage of but it is all truly her things of which we already own 2 versions.

The D conversation was very short. Not much to say. So after a few she gets up. She comes back, more emotional than before. W: "So, um." long pause where she is composing herself. W: "As you go through all of this, I guess I just ask that....if you want to....please think about staying here. But I understand if you don't want to or you can't. But please just let me know, because this is a lot of stuff here I have to take care of". She means the house, because by me staying here it's taken care of. It's my home, and for now I have every intention of staying here. Me: "Yes, I would prefer to stay here for now." W:"Ok. Good. We'll figure out logistics later. But I don't have any intention of.... I want us to work together to make this as easy as possible".

What she means is that for now the house will continue to be paid for by her, as was our M arrangement. She has no intention of pulling the rug out from under me. She's hoping it's all very peaceful as we D.

she let me know she will be coming back for one day next weekend, not sure if staying here at the house or at her parents nearby. This is to pick up more items. I requested she give me advance notice. She agreed, "no surprises". She mentioned she didn't know if I would want to see her or not, that's my decision. She said she's leaving tomorrow afternoon because it's too hard to be here.

So. This is where I am. Honestly, I'm in shock I think though it was expected. How do I act now? Continue to be calmly pleasant, not initiating conversation? Does that come across as crazy - my W just asked for a D and now i'm just neutrally going about my business in the house?

I know she's serious about this. But there's something about this forum and having a "plan" of DB that makes me think "oh ultimately she'll come out of this or I'll get some closure of some kind". Which I know is anti-DB, but I'm kind of wondering if I have some buried false hope. I don't understand how calm and (loving?) she's being about this. She's not angry, she's kind of sad, and she's just busy building her new life out of state.

She’s calm and loving because it assuages her guilt, and even more so because she knows it’s what usually works on you to get her what she wants. You are doing well by not responding the way she expects. First of all, you’re making her think twice because people notice when they don’t get the usual reaction. Second, by you’re actions you are sending the message, I respect your decision and I won’t stoop to begging and pleading to get what I want against what you want.

You’re doing really, really well despite a really, really crappy situation that just got worse, at least on the surface. Hang in there. Stay strong.