Does it matter if the therapist is pro marriage for IC? Legit question, it seems to me that for IC that matters less. I know where my lines are for the relationship, and I know the many of the changes I need to make for me. Do I need my IC to validate that?
This thread I've been pretty open about what I need to change about myself, but W is still very much in MLC/WW. It's not all me that needs to change. Her personality has changed and she is in true crisis, so I don't see her necessarily coming around. She's a "doer", and feels pressure from herself to always move forward in a bit of a bullheaded way. So even though I'm making changes for me (which would ultimately benefit the M, that's true also), I don't see her being someone to pause enough to notice. Plus she's out of state and we don't currently have contact really. It really does all happen so very fast.
W is in IC and I've noticed several changes in her. I appreciate that she's becoming more self-aware. She has said some truly insightful things about herself and I've responded with appreciation. But she also is convinced that she "never did anything for herself" and never lived the life she wanted. I can see parts of that, but for years she very actively wanted our relationship and life. She's just looking around her, asking "is this it?" and freaking out that she has found herself in a happy little suburban life. It's not what she wants right now.
Her EA/PA is a recently divorced woman. The best friend that W spends a lot of time with has her own M experiences that I think are feeding W's "Set yourself free!" mentality. So she's not really surrounded by people encouraging her to take time, to take her own path. I worry that she's looking for help and those closest to her are telling her to run. I can't do anything about it but it hurts.
TBH, I truly hope W is a major success at her new job. That will give her the boost of confidence she needs and deserves and will hopefully aid her in identifying what she values in her life. Of course I hope that turns out to be me, but maybe not. But she's an intelligent and hardworking woman who never believed she could make it this far in her career and still doubts her influence. I want her to be able to shine.
Yail,
I never got back to this. I like IC that are pro marriage. It shouldn't be necessary for IC, but there are plenty of IC who have no problem just saying you don't like life or your marriage then just D to set you free. I don't need that garbage. Unless it's an extreme case, something like abuse, I personally do not think people should D. There are just to many benefits of the MR that positivley affect the couple, family, and society.
You could have been the perfect W to your W and maybe this would have still happened. Who can know? I think it's more important right now that you can recognize your pitfalls and plan to improve them.
Last point, if you read a lot of sitches the WAS all seem to surround themselves with enablers. It's what people do, like attracts like. The problem with today's society is that the easy way is encouraged and valued over the hard way.
H(37) W(35) D8, D5, S3 T20, M13 BD 8/31/18 EA Discovered 9/13/18 Mediation 10/3/18 W files for D 10/12/18 W moves out 11/10/18 EA confirmed 12/25/18 D Final 1/10/19
Yail, I'm just now reading your sitch for the first time. First let me say that we've had some other same-sex couples here over the years, and like yours, the situations are really no different than opposite-sex couples and the DB'ing approach is just as valid.
Your W is going through something, I don't know if it's MLC or the onset of menopause or what but I really think this is more about her than it is you. Please understand they all do a "rewriting of history" to explain their actions. So you mentioned that she mowed the yard and such and says you haven't carried your weight, well it was fine for many years so why is it an issue now. It's an issue because she's looking for excuses to justify her behavior. Don't think that all you have to do is "fix" those issues to bring her back, because what you'll find is she'll present an endless series of targets. Knock one down and three more will pop up.
So what do you do, well you detach, get out, GAL. Give her time and space. Work on you because that's all you can control. And most of all, be patient. These things take time to resolve. A LOT of time.
Regarding your question about crying, by all means cry in private but try not to cry in front of her. But she knows you're upset so if you do cry in front of her it's not the end of the world. Eventually you'll be able to be strong and confident in front of her no matter what she says but you're still early in the sitch right now.
On this thread of books, I know W was reading "You are a Bad@$$". While maybe not an earth shattering read, to me it showed her genuine wish to not wallow in her own depression. She wants to live a full life. I'm glad she has desire.
I slept well last night, which is a good start. I have no idea what time W will be arriving home because communication is pretty non-existent. I've re-read answers on this forum I might give to some of her common lines in order to validate her.
AnotherStander: It could be perimenopause that's part of this equation, and I think that's true. There are definitely external or personal factors that are affecting her. She's watching her parent's age. Her career. And for the part about not being a full partner: it's true, it's an excuse to a certain degree. But in an effort to be fair, she has asked for help in this for years. With words, like an adult. I didn't hear her, and I do think I need to take some responsibility on this. I'd help a bit, then go back to old habits. Not saying it's my fault, but I need to work on being a full partner in a R. This is something I can only work on quietly for me.
Honestly, it's so much easier when she's out of town. I can work on GAL and get a rhythm into my day. The next few days will bring me back to the roller-coaster that I just want to GET OFF. Perhaps D is the best answer, I do wonder that sometimes. I want to be with someone amazing, and right now she's just...
While maybe not an earth shattering read, to me it showed her genuine wish to not wallow in her own depression. She wants to live a full life. I'm glad she has desire.
Some of them know that they are depressed and try to do something external to get out of it.
Pills, books, or other people are not going to make a depressed person happy again. its not that simple.
It takes real work to get yourself to a point where you are whole again.
While maybe not an earth shattering read, to me it showed her genuine wish to not wallow in her own depression. She wants to live a full life. I'm glad she has desire.
Some of them know that they are depressed and try to do something external to get out of it.
Pills, books, or other people are not going to make a depressed person happy again. its not that simple.
It takes real work to get yourself to a point where you are whole again.
I totally agree. W is in IC and it is someone that definitely pushes back at her. I think (though I don't know) this is a good IC match, and I hope it is helping W see where her logic is solid and where it fails. From the little she has shared with me, W is talking to IC about some buried trauma and some long-existing negative patterns she wishes to break in her life.
W told me back in July she is depressed and acting out (ex: was secretly smoking - she's not a smoker) and wanting to just tear her life down and act out. She is aware. I guess what I meant is that I'm glad she is willing to try things to make herself better - she's not in denial that something is very, very wrong.
I spent the day doing the "me" things I promised I would. Had no idea what time W would be "home", so didn't pay it any mind. I was out the past several hours on errands. I just walked in the door, and there was a note.
"So I'm here. Mom asked me to come to dinner so I'm at their house. Will be back after. Set myself up in the spare room. Will be back later, not sure what time ...(note continues with some logistics) ... See ya later".
I was glad to not be here when she moved in and set up. The room she's staying in is freezing (ha!). It's killing me to not go through her things and look for items from OW, but I won't because that will send me spiraling and it ultimately doesn't matter. OW lives here in town, so while I'm sure the EA continues while W is out of town via phone/text it's them seeing each other that of course hurts even more. I will not snoop. It does not matter. (I keep reminding myself).
It hit me that she is really this crazy person now and really going to leave after what was largely a really fantastic relationship. This just [censored]. I'm trying to save my power to have a conversation with her later, if it happens tonight. Honestly she may come home drunk and not want to talk. Honestly, I might be drunk. Which just puts it off and makes me more unsettled, but I'll find a way through the next few days. I just KNOW she's going to say SOMETHING that I will be unprepared for and it will throw me off balance. I've tried to rehearse answers in my head, but I'm sure she'll have some curveball.
I screamed obscenities in my car before getting home at the top of my lungs. That helped. Now to make dinner and perhaps settle myself into a movie.
How the $#% does this happen to real, live, loving relationships? How are we all here!?!
I spent the day doing the "me" things I promised I would.
Good. You probably feel slightly better about yourself. It will come across in your body language, even without any conscious effort.
Originally Posted by Yail
It's killing me to not go through her things and look for items from OW, but I won't because that will send me spiraling and it ultimately doesn't matter.
Good insight. Don't do it. Ask me how well I sleep when I get the flashbacks. Just don't do it.
Originally Posted by Yail
It hit me that she is really this crazy person now and really going to leave after what was largely a really fantastic relationship.
The key word is "now," and it likely was a fantastic relationship, or at least a decent one. Remind yourself of that if she tries to convince you otherwise.
Originally Posted by Yail
Honestly she may come home drunk and not want to talk. Honestly, I might be drunk.
I'm not a fan of power games but since we all play them...if you can be sober, and she isn't, well, then you have extra frontal lobe to work with. In other words, impulse control, judgment, emotional regulation...you'd have the upper hand if she started a R talk. But I wouldn't prod her into one, obviously.
Originally Posted by Yail
I just KNOW she's going to say SOMETHING that I will be unprepared for and it will throw me off balance.
You come across as an insightful person but that can work against you. That's some double mind-reading right there. First of all, you don't KNOW. There's no need for epistemology here. You just don't. If what you're saying is you FEEL or WORRY that she MIGHT, then sure. And second, when you say you'll be unprepared for it and be thrown off balance, well, that's not guaranteed, and you DO seem prepared. Because:
Originally Posted by Yail
I've tried to rehearse answers in my head, but I'm sure she'll have some curveball.
So you're as prepared as you can be, cognitively. You're ready to say what you need to say. As for the curveball, I'd guess you might mean that you fear being caught off guard, meaning you will have to wing it, meaning your emotions might influence your choice of words, etc. Well, that's also something you can prepare for. You demonstrated that today. So, your preparation between now and whenever it happens is to GAL GAL GAL like a crazy person. ESPECIALLY physical exercise. You want to be calm and confident.
Originally Posted by Yail
How the $#% does this happen to real, live, loving relationships? How are we all here!?!
Which, if any, theological/spiritual/philosophical framework floats your boat? Pick one. Because of the Fall. Because resisting impermanence causes suffering. Because of an inability to walk the middle way between chaos and order. Because we are a bunch of atoms bumping into each other for all eternity with no control over anything. Just because. But being human means being capable of DOING something. Consider this an opportunity to get better at being human. I dunno, those are some of the things I tell myself when I get to the "why" questions.
H: 35 W: 33 M: 11 T: 13
4/10/18: I discovered A and confronted ("BD1") 6/23/18: I moved out 8/31/18: MC ends ("BD2")
I just KNOW she's going to say SOMETHING that I will be unprepared for and it will throw me off balance.
You come across as an insightful person but that can work against you. That's some double mind-reading right there. First of all, you don't KNOW. There's no need for epistemology here. You just don't. If what you're saying is you FEEL or WORRY that she MIGHT, then sure. And second, when you say you'll be unprepared for it and be thrown off balance, well, that's not guaranteed, and you DO seem prepared. .
Yeah, that's true and helpful. In a recent unsuccessful phone conversation I said I needed to think about something that W said and her response was, "Yeah, okay, you go process or do whatever you've got to do about that" in a sarcastic tone. I know it is WW talk that should not be taken seriously, but it also points out that she knows me quite well, and I'm most definitely a person that processes a LOT. Perhaps to a fault.
So tonight W came home from her parents at 9:45pm.First time I've seen her in just about a month. I was watching a movie and enjoying wine while knitting (my ultimate relaxing!). I called out a neutral "hello", but did not get up to greet W as I would have done in the past. She did a few things downstairs such as switch out the laundry. Then came upstairs, sat in a chair in the same room as me for a moment. I was genuinely cool and comfortable and in a good mood. She asked what I was watching, I asked how her dinner was. She asked my plans for tomorrow, I shared briefly. She asked where a piece of artwork that used to be on the wall is, I told her it's in the back room. (I took it down - it was always a piece I hated. She noticed right away).
She went to do more tasks around the house. checked in one more time to say she was going to bed, asked where her slippers were. I said I hadn't seen them, thought she brought them with her? But if I did see them I would have put them in the closet - check there. All very neutral conversation, no emotion from either of us.
I'm realizing that DB is so much about self respect and personal power. It really isn't about keeping the R. Because tonight I feel no hope for the R, but I feel better than I have in a while. I'm making active decisions for myself and not feeding this ever-hungry beast. It's going to get worse if the R really does break fully, but for now I feel confident in myself. Her antics cannot rule my life.
her response was, "Yeah, okay, you go process or do whatever you've got to do about that" in a sarcastic tone. I know it is WW talk that should not be taken seriously
Is that a consistent pattern over the course of your M? That's kind of just mean. Brace yourself for incoming 2x4: if you always let her talk like this to you, she will never respect you. I'm sure I've talked to my W that way in the past, probably more often than I should have, and it makes me sick to my stomach to think of how badly I've hurt her at times. Don't let her hurt you or bully you, WW or not. Don't let anyone. We think if we're kind and tolerate just anything, people will like us. Apparently that's not how it works at all.
Originally Posted by Yail
I'm realizing that DB is so much about self respect and personal power. It really isn't about keeping the R. Because tonight I feel no hope for the R, but I feel better than I have in a while. I'm making active decisions for myself and not feeding this ever-hungry beast. It's going tomight get worse if the R really does break fully, but for now I feel confident in myself. Her antics cannot rule my life.
How long have you been here, like 2 weeks? This is crazy good progress in the way you think about it. Be sure you're doing it, too. Not saying you aren't, just reminding you (and reminding myself, too).
Also: 1. It isn't really about keeping the R, but it sort of is, because 2. You feel no hope for the R, which means 3. You feel better than you have in a while and you're making active decisions for yourself, you feel confident in yourself, and 4. It might get worse, but 5. That's pretty much exactly how you reduce the chances of losing the R or rebuilding it.
Crazy, huh?
H: 35 W: 33 M: 11 T: 13
4/10/18: I discovered A and confronted ("BD1") 6/23/18: I moved out 8/31/18: MC ends ("BD2")
Is that a consistent pattern over the course of your M? That's kind of just mean.
Hmmm. Well, W has always been someone who can get short and have a temper. Usually if the temper is directed at me (very rare) I sort of shrug and walk away and let her deal with her stuff. I do think over the years there have been more times than not that my body language is a bit submissive in those moments. Not that I'm some cowering person saying "i'm sorry! I'm sorry!" for things that aren't my fault. But in an effort to keep the peace, yes, I suppose I let that stuff slide a lot. Never really occurred to me to change it, tbh. I realize that's kind of silly but that kind of sarcasm and bit of meanness never really got to me, so I just moved on. I see now I need to address it. Not make a big huge deal of it, but state that I'll only continue conversations if the conversations remain respectful. I can do that.
Originally Posted by burned
Originally Posted by Yail
It's going tomight get worse if the R really does break fully, but for now I feel confident in myself. Her antics cannot rule my life.
I guess what I meant by getting worse is that I've been doing okay at keeping positive about myself and moving forward in my life. I'm trying to actively fill my calendar and stay focused at work. But I know when it comes down to things like moving and selling the house I'm going to become hysterically sad. Not in front of W, but just privately I'll break down. I'm mourning the R, but I'm also definitely mourning that my life as I know it is being taken away. We've been together 10 years and built a life. But because W is 11 years older than me, she is more advanced in her career. So the house is 100% in her name, and was purchased before we were married last year. I can't afford to buy her out, so I'll need to find a new living situation once the house is sold. I'm resentful about that for sure.
This morning W and I are both on the same page: neutrally pleasant without initiating unnecessary conversation. It's like she's doing the DB thing too. I appreciate that we're not fighting or have too much tension, but I'm not sure what it means if it "means" anything in the DB world.
