HI DejaVu - I too hope it goes well. My advice would be the same if the conversation goes in an "I think I've made a mistake" or "I am happier living apart" direction. Stay calm, validate, don't commit. Easier said then done I know.
Your weekend away sounds wonderful.
I don't really know the right answer re the kids. Most of the time mine seem fine, like they accept the new normal. Then there is a birthday or a family tradition, and suddenly they become moody/clingy/teary. Or something minor happens (a lost pen, what they want not being on the menu in the restaurant) and suddenly there are silent tears falling down their cheeks. They never say I'm sad because Daddy doesn't live here. They try and hold it together for us. I think you gave the right answer though. By saying Daddy wants to spend special time with you, you made it positive. You gave reassurance that they are loved and that you are both onboard with you going away on his birthday.
Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst. I completely feel what you are going through. Stay strong. Stay positive. Be gracious and good luck. Hope we'll hear only good news.
So... much todo about nothing. He showed up with a bottle of my favourite wine and said he just wanted to “hang out”... no particular reason. So we chatted for a while about his work... and then mine... about our kids and then a little bit of R talk. It wasn’t a planned thing but it was a natural progression with both of us talking more philisophically than anything. My H feels like because of my education and my upbringing, I’m a little ahead of him on the emotionally developed scale. He says he was preoccupied with work the last week but is going to another counselling appointment this week to get back to figuring himself out... “time for some more self reflection”. He tells me he doesn’t have an end goal in mind but did admit his little place is “getting a bit old”. He still has no plan other than to figure himself out and to figure himself out. He says he has “pressed pause” on his heart - not just in terms of his feelings for me but also his feelings for anyone else. He maintains he has no interest in looking for love elsewhere. We also talked a lot about the concept of happiness and I told him that if I have felt unhappy, my practice has always been to ask myself what I was doing or thinking to cause myself to feel that way. He admitted that that is not something that he has always done. He was interested in my activities of late. I told him that I have been enjoying myself and remembering who I was before but that I lived on my own for several years before him and I know myself quite well. He wondered if not ever having lived on his own has contributed to his situation now. I also told him that I am happy to spend time with him and talke about things but that if that we end up divorced, I won’t be able to be his “friend”. He said he understood that and also admitted that for the past 13 years I have been his best friend. We talked a bit about my proposal which he is “mulling over”. I told him that I’m not sure I could do that to the kids anyway as they are used to seeing me every day. He does have them for five days in mid-November when I am playing in a pool tournament. It’s in my city but I am basically only home to sleep. So, after about an hour of talking, he had to get going. He thanked me for the conversation. Said, as usual, he will take what we talked about and spend some time processing all of it.
So... probably broke some rules regarding no R talk but I don’t think it did any damage. It was not an emotional conversation but it was direct and honest and we did talk about some serious things. But...like I said...it was also quite philosophical in nature too so I don’t think he experienced it as threatening or pressure. Time will tell I guess but overall, I feel good about it. Thank you all for your good wishes and your advice. I appreciate it so much.
I know I would have done the same as you did here, but I'll be honest and tell you what it screamed out to me when I read your post. 'Where's his incentive?'
You say that he won't have you as his best friend to unload to if you get D. Why should he have you now? What difference does D make to your current situation except a legal bit of paper? Is he currently behaving as if he is married?
I know I'm being harsh, but the MLCer is harsh. In his eyes, perhaps he has the best of both worlds 'get to do what I want and enjoy the benefits of W being there when I need someone to offload to' He was wallowing a bit and not committing to anything real except telling you how he feels. I think you already know that. You're still helping him with his feelings. You're his wife not his counsellor. I know part of being married is to be able to look to each other for support but he is picking and choosing which bits of being married suit him.
There are little signs that he's starting to 'miss you' but then you gave him what he needed.
Practice and work out what you are going to say when this happens again so that you cut him off whilst still being polite.
I probably would have done the same. It is so hard suddenly cutting yourself off emotionally when you see someone you love in distress. I could not say "well [censored] to be you" and walk away. But probably should.
I don't know what your H was like before all this self reflection, and I am far from an MLC expert, but from what I have read, self-reflection is not one of the traits of an MLC'r in the throes of the middle of their crises. If anything, it would probably hit somewhere in the later stages. Others here probably know more and can give better advice on how to react to one who has hit depression.
PS - mine looks like he is in replay and is going to be stuck there for a very long time ... with some anger thrown in just to keep me on my toes.
The talk was also him testing the waters, reconfirming you are still there for him if he needs someone to talk to. Plan B stuff.
I would push for a revision of your child care proposal. You have to have a childcare schedule. Can you stay at your sisters a couple of nights a week. He cannot continue being a part time dad who only gets the good bits.
Thank-you Yorkie & FS. Very good points and not lost on me at all. After he left, I thought about it quite a bit and resolved to be less accommodating in the future. It was nice to see him though and to have a conversation that did not involve a lot of hurt feelings. I'm not sure what to think of the self reflection piece. I feel like he has been "hiding" from me for at least four, maybe five years. I remarked to my sister on our drive that in terms of my day-to-day life, nothing has actually changed for me. I see about as much of him now as I did before I found out about his secret life. The only difference is now I know what he is doing and he knows I know so maybe he has a chance to look inward a bit more than before when he was so focused on keeping up the lie. I feel like there isn't much more for me to say though so will concentrate on stepping back and being a little less available. It is tough though... when he is in self-reflection mode, he often likes to run things by me and says it helps. He has another counselling appointment coming up. Hopefully that will help.
We do have a childcare schedule currently in that he has committed to seeing them on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays (afterschool and he takes our daughter to her speech therapy appointment). He also spends Sunday days with them. What he doesn't do is take on any of the organizing and day-to-day household responsibilities. That is my department and always has been. He had the kids at his place overnight on Sunday apparently when I was away. He said he had some computer work that he had to get done. The issue there is that they are in the same room and in sleeping bags. Not a great arrangement when they have to go to school the next day. They would prefer their beds. And...we don't want to invest any money into buying them beds because we haven't decided if this arrangement is going to be long term. We will need to revisit that in the New Year if he is still there.
I read your thread and always think how similar our sitch's are. Our H's are good people doing not so good things. I want to shake mine all the time and say "wake up you idiot".
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
I see about as much of him now as I did before I found out about his secret life. The only difference is now I know what he is doing and he knows I know so maybe he has a chance to look inward a bit more than before when he was so focused on keeping up the lie. I feel like there isn't much more for me to say though so will concentrate on stepping back and being a little less available.
This is exactly how I feel. I see H more now than I ever did. Not only that. When he is here he is here and not scrolling through his phone. He is not reflective and self aware like your H but, still, it is a little disconcerting. Apart from not living under the same roof and not being affectionate to one another, my life has not really changed. He had amassed and was paying off a massive student debt, so I have paid for nearly everything home or child related so him leaving has not left me any worse off financially.
If you are happy with the childcare arrangements, then you should stick with it. But, I do think you need to try and get him to have the kids the odd weekend and one night a week. Babysitting is not the same as being a dad. Can you not stay at your sisters?
DV, as far as R talks go it sounds like you handled it perfectly. The rule is not to initiate R talks, but sometimes the WAS does or sometimes they flow naturally out of a related convo and in those cases it's OK to let it happen. The advice is to listen and validate and it sounds like you did that quite well! So well done!
Thank you everyone for your comments. I’ve been thinking a lot about the cake eating. In some ways, I feel like it would be easier if we didn’t have the kids as I could really get some distance. But we do have them and with him living so close to us, it is just so easy for him to come and go. Good for the kids… ot so good for me. Even though on some level, I like to see him, I could also use some time of not seeing him as my down days seem to coincide with the pop-ins. This morning, he came by to pick up our daughter to take her to her tutoring appointment. He was a bit early so when I came out of my room, he was standing there with a cup of coffee he had poured for himself. He saw me and asked my daughter for her IPad so he could show me a video of a new electric car he thinks is really cool. He is so delusional… news flash… if you and I split up, there is NO WAY you will be able to afford that. But…he doesn’t deal with our finances so he really has no clue about things like that.
FS... I, too, think our sitchs are very similar. I struggle with the “wake up idiot” feeling whenever I am around my H. I know that he doesn’t tell me everything about how he is feeling but I truly want to shake him because outwardly, he looks pretty pleased with himself. Ugh…
Feeling kinda down this morning. Maybe because of the gray weather and the realization that Christmas and 2019 are fast-approaching? I got my new agenda for work yesterday and I was leafing through the pages wondering what my life will be like next year. Makes me anxious to think about it. I think I’ve been doing a pretty good job for the most part DBing and GAL but I still have a long way to go to detach. I wonder if there is a way to do that and still hang on to my love for him. This is a question I ask myself every day. That and I wonder why I would even love someone who has lied to me and our children for so long. Is that love or is it just neediness? The reality is that I don’t think I really know my H anymore…if I ever did. I don’t think he knows himself so how can I possibly know him?
Sigh… two steps forward and one step back. This really is the most challenging thing I have gone through and I’ve lost both my parents to cancer. So glad I am not alone but also very sad that everyone on here is going through similar circumstances. I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy.
