Thanks KAW for the nice gentle interpretation. I'll take it.
I actually *decided* to make myself call in the morning... didn't actually call until after work because calling H in the morning is the fast route to voice mail. Timing is most definitely key.
Quote: Maybe that's one of the reasons our Hs went looking elsewhere. They wanted to be needed and reassured. I've had to face that one square in the mirror.
Mooka, did your H say this? My H and I talked about this while he was the beginning stages of EA. He later said he wondered if he was in part looking for that. But that he chose to look for it outside his M instead of asking his W for it (and also after he began to ask his W for it) is a separate issue, IMO.
The independence is a big part of who I am and originally H was very attracted to/proud of that in me. So I suspect that underneath it was more other factors... actually I think Shirley Glass sums up my H quite well. Me too, for that matter.
I hope my communication skills are getting good. Thanks! I have been working on that.
I know many people like them around here, but I'm not a big fan of the M-V books. They remind me of the Bridget Jones books-- my response is too often "who are these women??" But then, my H is pretty Venus-like in some ways.
I picked up that tidbit because I have a bad habit of overexplaining things (not that anyone reading my posts needs to be told this, LOL). It bugs H to no end, too.
Sure would be nice if "growth" was a place you could drive to and turn off the car, huh? Unfortunately -- or rather fortunately -- this road never really ends.
wonder
p.s. Anyone else noticing they get really introspective when they have PMS?
Quote: p.s. Anyone else noticing they get really introspective when they have PMS?
YES,YES and YES!!!!
Usually my PMS time is also my lowest PMA time. Thankfully the recovery period is much shorter now, but I have definitely noticed a connection!
I find it so interesting about the conflict avoidance AND the independence.
If there is one thing I got out of this sitch is that I know who the REAL me is...not teh one that was the other half of H for so long. I am enjoying my independence and I hope if I become involved with someone someday, he will appreciate my independent streak, 'cause it's not going anywhere!!
Happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder.... (thoreau)
It sounds like you've been doing a lot of thinking and the way you handled the call back and then the follow up call with a thank you to H, sounded great!!
It got some results and no outright conflict or negativity. Then you were able to move on and feel good.
It would seem H was responsive!!...got the message not to take advantage(at least in this circumstance) and will probably think twice next time he goes to do it again.
Timing is important, I agree. But as we avoidance seekers know we can use THAT card until the cows come home. There is a difference between choosing our timing and just letting it go by because it feels more comfortable, AT THE MOMENT. Sometimes we need to bite the bullit and do the deed. I know you had pre-planned to talk with H about the insurance money issue( A good thing) and then to not do it because the convo was going good, which was a sort of "judgement call".
And down right forgetting does happen...we are all human and subject to distraction. But I am really glad you took a second look at what you did. Because I do know how easy avoidance can disguise itself as something else.
I won't wade in on the PMS vs PMA. Suffice it to say, I definitely notice it too!
PMA can be difficult to maintain on a good day, let alone when working with PMS!! Being aware is vital. Aware of your physical feelings and mental state, ever changing as that may be, too.
As I said even on a good day, A tall order to fill!!
Quote: I am enjoying my independence and I hope if I become involved with someone someday, he will appreciate my independent streak, 'cause it's not going anywhere!!
Good for you, Sun! It shouldn't go anywhere if it's who you are, IMO.
My H also has an independent, kind of rebellious streak... something I've admired in him. He's a pretty resourceful and creative guy.
Trish, I am ALWAYS thinking it seems. Maybe too much of that, too! Especially these days.
I am generally just so confused by my H's choice of how to handle things right now. I still feel very positive about what could be... but also very realistic that he seems to be choosing not to go that route for whatever reasons he chooses not to share with me. I have been taken out of the loop of his thinking and processing, and his life, for that matter. At NO time in our S, except right after the bomb, have I felt this "eliminated".
Sometimes I think my H is following some advice on how to alienate me completely. Kind of sad, really. But also gets me angry if I think about it too much.
Betsey just posted something on her Friends thread that summed up for me SO much of what I've been feeling... I do believe H has deep feelings for me (it's kind of obvious, really) and is so hurt and fearful that he is scared to try again, he is protecting himself. He is afraid I will never forgive him, afraid things will fall apart, afraid to take his end of control of things, afraid of wading through the feelings to get there. So now maybe it is just easier to avoid me altogether. The last times he was at the house, he was taking a picture of me with his phone... so he remembers what I look like anyway, LOL.
Nothing I can do about how he wants to handle things... wish I could get a handle on how I want to handle things. I am all over the map with that one the past few weeks.
H finally returned my call about the things I wanted to go over...apologized and said calling me back had "skipped his mind." My initial reaction to the message was anger-- how arrogant of him. But maybe he really did forget.
As far as I can tell he has relegated speaking with me into a window between 6-7 p.m. weekdays. Any other time, I get VM and any time he returns a call, it has been during this time. This is very telling. In the past, this has happened when OW is in the picture and I am being squeezed in when she is not around.
I have been busy every night this week at that hour, so I haven't called back yet because I'm not interested in playing VM tag.
BTW, I do tend to have a forgetful streak... the other day I called a colleague to ask advice on something, and completely forgot to ask her because we got onto other topics... yikes!
Wonder...bumping you up!!! Love that independent streak, too. And BTW....that forgetfulness pattern comes with stress, duh!?! Oh well....we're all human after-all.
I just want to chime in and say I think you're doing awfully well with all these epiphanies, and try not to be too hard on yourself.
Quote: Nothing I can do about how he wants to handle things... wish I could get a handle on how I want to handle things. I am all over the map with that one the past few weeks.
Well, maybe you need to do this in order to figure out what you're really feeling? You and I both know that you're not doing this with your H (or in his presence), so nobody is getting hurt by your edginess.
Quote: As far as I can tell he has relegated speaking with me into a window between 6-7 p.m. weekdays. Any other time, I get VM and any time he returns a call, it has been during this time. This is very telling. In the past, this has happened when OW is in the picture and I am being squeezed in when she is not around.
Um, try not to make this assumption, okay? While I know you're operating on past history, I know firsthand that it is sometimes easier for me to give someone my full attention when I can schedule time with them. I know you're busy too, so just imagine how you feel when you look at your palm pilot/daytimer and see days that are chock full of stuff... but wanting to call a friend to chat.
I have to say that your H and you have a similar and easy going friendship. As long as you're taking care of you, and there is nothing pressing you to rock the boat, why not drift awhile longer?
We'll eventually get where we need to go, Wonder. I really believe that. But sometimes we just need to wait for some more puzzle pieces to appear so we have a good idea where that is.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Wonder ~ I know what you mean about feeling "eliminated" ~ that is a good way to put it!
I think Underdog had some good advice about drifting a little longer....back to PATIENCE again!!
Happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder.... (thoreau)
Mooka, there you go reminding me that I am not superhuman. I am just like the other mere mortals... stress can get to my brain sometimes!
Sun, now I know why they say patience is a virtue... I honestly feel that I may be fresh out of it, however.
Betsey, I like "epiphanies"... sounds so much more pleasant than self-absorbed navel gazing, which is what is feels like sometimes. I don't know that I'm uncovering anything new, just revisiting old stuff I still need to process, I guess.
Do you really think it sounds like we have a friendship? It feels pretty isolated these days, like we are rarely communicating. I felt like we were really re-creating that connection for a long time and that he put up a giant wall to it.
We DO communicate far better than we previously did, just the opportunities are few and far between. And frankly, the more I think about creating what I consider a real friendship with him should we officially D, the less that I am feeling that is what I want, for a variety of reasons. We don't have children-- if we did, I think I would want and need to figure out a way to make that work.
But then, I might need to work through some of the things that are coming up for me these days to get to a place where it might feel more possible.
Can I drift a bit longer? Maybe. Seems I advise others to do that. But I've been drifting a while it seems to me. I know I will get where I need to go because I'm putting the work into that.
The way I see it, while I wait out the time between filing and finality, I am fluctuating between:
1. Showing him in some grand way that I do want a future with him (this being based on his issues with our previous R and the results I'd gotten from pursuit and throwing all my emotions out there -- in a good healthy way, not the other way).
2. Continue living my own life and letting him wonder what I am up to. Letting him do whatever he's going to do without any opinion, input or interference from me.
3. Some third option I have not figured out, but seems like there would be one.
Maybe the flip side of strength is the knowledge of what I want and need to be happy, and knowing that with the changes I have made, I will be that whether H chooses to be a part of my future or chooses not to be. I'm finding I'm less patient because I am living my life. And I'm frustrated with the idea of someone who says he "can't go back" (but on the one hand wants to) and then does what he can to keep his image of me and our R "back there" in spite of the actual positive interactions/changes that have been our reality for more than a year. I mean, he acknowledges all of these changes in me/us/interactions, acknowledges all of these revelations we've shared about our R over time, and then acts as though none of it is relevant.
I believe that I will eventually have a partner who's willing and able to be in the kind of relationship I want to have-- who acts out of faith and trust and not fear-- since H says he want the same kind of R, I hope he will rethink where he's headed.
But I am seriously of the mindset these days that once the D papers get signed, the door of having a place in my life is going to be permanently closed to him.
Quote: Um, try not to make this assumption, okay? While I know you're operating on past history, I know firsthand that it is sometimes easier for me to give someone my full attention when I can schedule time with them. I know you're busy too, so just imagine how you feel when you look at your palm pilot/daytimer and see days that are chock full of stuff... but wanting to call a friend to chat.
Thanks Betsey for kicking me re: assumptions. I need that sometimes.
It's a tricky balancing act to use what you've learned from the times you didn't listen to your gut versus making up things in your head that just aren't based on anything but fear of something that once happened to you.
And I really don't know which this is, so I shouldn't make any assumptions.
I'll take it.
