Juju, It's like when you a friend tries to hook you up with someone else and their compatibility factor is that they are both single. Sure, you both want long term commitment and family. Most people do, but that doesn't mean everyone is compatible. There goes a whole lot into making long term commitment and family to work, not just wanting it.
I know you know that. It's not easy to let go. Be good to yourself though, and don't be so hard on yourself.
Have you thought of renting a 2 bedroom apartment? I lived with my dad and stepmom for 2 and a half months after bomb drop. But my dad, as much as I love him, is impossible to live with. He is a man set in his ways and OCD with cleaning and you can't interrupt his routine. It becomes super stressful, so I get it. You may not be able to buy, so see what is available to rent. My house is being sold, and I understand the struggle of trying to stay in a school district with an extremely expensive area. Keep your eyes and options open.
Renting would only be possible in a cheaper neighborhood and i lose convenient baby sitting and a good school district and i would be barely getting by. I would have nothing to show for it and saving would be impossible. Rent control is pretty non existant, and i know my wages arent going up much higher. So rent increases would be rough.
I really thought that it was committment, not compatablility that was important. NG has some really great qualities. I just cant handle the nagging and criticism.
I have been so depressed.
Tomorrow, i have to start with exercise and diet. I have tontalk to NG but i have had son the whole time and its hard to get time. .
Whats something you could do to help with the depression? This may not be comforting but we often suffer the most in life holding onto expectations of what we think life should be, instead of reality. Is there any way you could re frame your current situation to better see the positives? I know its not easy, but its useful.
I could probably get into a house here, I could afford one but it may not be the best move for me financially. I did alot of thinking the last few months and realized its not the right time for me. I tell you what, sometimes knowing my ex gets the little cozy home with her bf while I'm in an apartment struggling alone gets to me. But then I try to take her out of the equation and look at what I have and I really do have so much to be grateful for.
All of my co-workers in my department own houses, pretty nice ones at that and since many of them are in relationships with someone who makes good also, I see them doing pretty well overall. If I compared this to my reality all the time it would eventually eat away at me. "Don't keep up with the Jones", I had to tell myself that after doing some real reflection and realizing a house wasn't in the cards for me now nor was it the best choice for several years. And honestly I found if I keep the thoughts of just me in my mind its easier to appreciate what I do have.
I understand this is only one of the things you have to worry about and I imagine some of the stress living with your mother causes you is intense, but you have mentioned the benefits. It pops out, you see the positives that life has given you now. Focus on whatever those are and let go of the things that may be outside of your control for now. AS we all know first hand life can change drastically in a short amount of time, who knows where any of us will be in a year.
As for NG, it sounds like you've decided its not working out, that's ok. Commitment is important, maybe it is most important. But that doesn't mean compatibility wont play a role. Be gentle with yourself
Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
Thanks fog..exercise always helps me. I just have had no time lately . Tomorrow my schedule gets more organized so i think that will help.
So i have came to a big psych realization after a recent fight with my mother.
One of the big questions i have is why i have always been so suseptible to gaslighting. My 1st bf was a jealous lcontrolling cheater. My husband was a secret high functioning addict. I always felt like i was arguing with the irrational. But i never left. I never trusted myself. I always would ask others "is it me or was he out of line"
Well, during this fight my mom made a big mistake concerning my son. She basically fed him really old outdated lunch meat. (Hes ok) i was trying to figure out what happened and asked her about it. I had pointed put that i had told her where everything was and prepared it so all she had to do was put it together. Instead of just apologizing or saying " oh no. Thank god he didnt eat it" ( i was not attacking or yelling at her) she started accusing me for not having thrown out the old meat (i dont eat meat. Had no idea it was even there) she started telling me "if u want things done right, do it yourself" but she had told me she would put it together for him because i was going to be at work early that day.
Anyway, i am not mad at her mistake. Only that she did not accept responsibility and blamed me for her mistake. This is a pattern. She has been like this since we were kids. She admits that she will never admit to being wrong because it is a sign of weakness and that you cant show weakness to children. I have never been allowed to be right, even when i am right. I have never been validated.
Anyway, i feel like i have been raised to be gaslighted.
I have not broken things off with NG. My schedule has literally been non stop. He does not know i am still upset about that argument we had. He is acting as if with me and i dont know how to handle things, cause we are getting friendlier. He brought me flowers and told me how upset he has been that i have had no time to see him.
I am not upset that he got rude at the airport. . I am upset that when i confronted his rudeness days later, he counter attacked by telling me he was rude because of all the ridiculous ways i was acting..and focused on the point that i waited 3 days later to tell him. He cant admit to being wrong. He told me he never does. But he will make up something ridiculous in a joking way so that people will know he knows he is wrong.
He does not see this one incident as a big deal, but to me it is because i fear patterns and future issues. I dont want to waste my time. I dont want to hurt someone. I dont want to make a wrong or unjustified decision.
I still dont feel right. This relationship was not just dating to me. I was looking for a future and partner.
So i just found out that this woman in my profession that i really admire is divorced. I met another woman that was also pretty awesome in my field...also divorced. I did not get personal. But my instinct tells me it was the husbands. Most of the single moms i know are pretty amazing. I think my favorite person of all time is jk rowling. I just love her.
But it scares me about men. And what is out there. (And im not meaning any of you guys here on DB. I know there are some crazy and selfish women out there as well) but i am wondering if maybe NG is not so bad? He wants exactly what I want. Which is a committed relationship and partnership. He would not cheat. He is not an addict. Isnt that most of the battle in finding someone? He texts me everyday. He will work with me on issues. Offers to help. He just has a blunt and filterless personality. We dont really have similar interests. Hes not very sociable either.
I read about kml and gingers (2 smart and incredible women) experiences with emotionally avoidant men. And ibworry that i dont know how bad things really are out there.
Many divorced guys, many of them divorce busters do not want a relationship. I read a lot from the male posters here about how they dont want anything serious. No purpose for them to entwine lives with someone when they dont have kids together. I can see that with my ex.
My friend and my mom tells me thats not true. That the guys they see are looking to settle down. I didnt really date. I basically just committed to the 1st perso inwent out with post divorce. I should not have done that.
Many men walk away from a relationship at some point. Many will cheat. Some are physically abusive. Others have such extreme addictions they are totally destructive. And many more are very protective of themselves from women who are like this, looking only for casual hookups or arm's length relationships.
So if you find someone that doesn't fall into any of those categories and is a genuinely good person looking for a committed relationship, you have to make a choice. Make it work, or hunt for unicorns.
I don't believe in unicorns, and I believe the myth that they exist and everyone is entitled to one is the problem. This is the mentality that leads people to walk out on marriages and spend their lives single because reality doesn't measure up to the fantasy we're told we deserve.
My best friend compromised in several important areas with himself when he met his wife. There wasn't much chemistry. She doesn't show him love the way he receives it. He feels lonely and hurt because she doesn't understand who he is and what he needs or is suffering through. BUT- he married her because she is strongly religious and is a family therapist, and he figured she was the 'safe reliable' choice. Guess what? They are still married, and are about the only couple I know that I would consider 'happily' married. They have inside jokes. They take trips together. They raise kids together. They watch Netflix together. They go out to eat, and buy each other anniversary gifts, and live a good life together. Does he still feel hurt, misunderstood, and lonely at times? Are there times when it's so rough that he feels he made a mistake? Of course. But THERE IS NO MARRIAGE WHERE THESE FEELINGS DON'T EXIST. As far as I'm concerned, he made a great decision because she hasn't BD'd him, cheated on him, or stabbed him with a kitchen knife. This is best case scenario guys.
Meanwhile my sister had a guy like that she divorced 10 years ago because she felt unsatisfied and bored. She got together with an exciting bad boy, turned out he was abusive and after that ended she said it was the worst 6 years of her life that almost killed her. Then she was with the man she wanted to start a family with and marry this summer, but oh yeah, he overdosed on heroin and died, so now she is without her man and too old to have kids.
JJ, I like where your head is at. I agree that dating is about finding someone that works, but in marriage you have to not sweat a lot of things. Those things can either be adultery and abuse, or they can be impatience and abrasiveness. Of course you don't like it. I promise there are things he doesn't like about you. The question is could it work? Because if the answer is yes, then you've already found your unicorn.
Don't get me wrong, if you hate the guy and dread seeing him every day then yeah, no need to torture yourself. But if things are good overall and you just need to suck it up once in a while and vent to a friend, that's as good as it gets.
Now the rest of the board can tell me what bad advice that is and I can bow out and go back to my bunker and let everyone else give you directions to the fabled land of unicorns...
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Oh, I have one other person that agrees. The author of "Marry Him". Here's a review. Exactly what I was trying to say.
Quote
A year ago, writer Lori Gottlieb set off a firestorm—that's what Meredith Vieira called it on the Today show—with an essay in The Atlantic titled "Marry Him!" Her argument: If you're a woman on the cusp of 30, you should suck it up and settle down with Mr. Good Enough, as waiting for Mr. Right probably means missing out, resigning yourself to a purgatory of depressing dates and meaningless flings until, finally, no one bothers to call anymore because you're, gulp, too old.
In a generation of women coming off the bacchanal of Sex and the City, Gottlieb's article hit like a horrible hangover. It entered the pantheon of incendiary articles about women and marriage that pop up in every era—like the outrageous (and later debunked) claim, in Newsweek in 1986, that a 40-year-old woman was more likely to be killed by a terrorist than marry.
Gottlieb's piece polarized readers. Some said her argument was common sense, that women must confront the biological realities that suggest they're most marriageable when they're young and fertile. Other readers said she was telling women to sell out their dreams and shut down their hearts.
In time for Valentine's Day, Gottlieb is back, with an entire book devoted to her theory. Part The Rules and part Malcolm Gladwellian sociopop, Marry Him: The Case for Settling for Mr. Good Enough is surprisingly, unnervingly convincing. Gottlieb interviewed an array of experts—sociologists, behavioral economists, social psychologists, and statisticians—who presented evidence about why online dating doesn't work, what women can really expect when they're in their 40s (there are only 72 single men for every 100 women in the 45-to-65-year-old demographic, according to a U.S. Census figure she cites), and why women are fundamentally the choosier sex. "There are so many really wonderful men out there, men who want commitment, who want to be married, who are attractive and smart and interesting," Gottlieb says. "They may not be movie-star attractive, they may be awkward at first, they may not fit our cultural image of who Mr. Right or who Prince Charming is. But we shouldn't pass them up. Look what happened to me."
What happened to Gottlieb? Educated and independent, she is gorgeous, vivacious, and sharply witty. She went to Stanford Medical School; she has written several books, two of which have been optioned by Hollywood. In other words, she is such a fantastic catch that she assumed she would never have to settle, that a Superhusband—romantic, brilliant, baggage-free—would emerge from the ether and sweep her into an eternally fulfilling marriage. But, she says, she missed the boat—several times—by focusing on potential mates' flaws and expecting too much. Now 42, she has a 4-year-old son, courtesy of a sperm donor. "We are taught as young women in this culture that compromise is a bad word," she says. "We tell each other: 'You go, girl. You get the best. You deserve the best.' It's not so much narcissism as a false cultural perception of our worth. We want the ten, because we think we're a ten. But we're missing the fact that we're not. Nobody is. Men have flaws, but we have flaws, too."
Surely, some women will find Marry Him more than a little off-putting. Its subtitle makes the prospect of marriage sound like a life sentence. And sometimes Gottlieb's call to arms sounds so pragmatic as to be loveless.
Readers may also ask, what is an unhappily single woman doing, telling us how and why to get married? But maybe the question is, who better? For a woman who once wouldn't have thought of dating a short man in a bow tie, she has come a long way. (In the book, Gottlieb described dating just such a guy, and you root for the pair, until he moves to Chicago.) She is currently "accepting invitations from men everywhere," she says with a laugh. Or as she puts it in the book's dedication: "For my husband, whoever you are."
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
I had given myself a bit of cooling time. To make sure i wasnt reacting on emotion. We hung out, he helped me with something. And we joked around a bit. Came to the conclusion that had i just said, "stop acting like an ahole" he would have stopped and apologized. He told me he is trying to learn more about how i work so he doesnt make mistakes. I told him about my wants in a relationship and he was very open to them. I never told him my wants before. I was afraid to. I also told him that i am the type of person that lives in my head. He said he figured that out already. So i am feeling pretty good.
I think my big fear is being powerless and not validated and entering into a relationship with someone that does not want to meet my needs. I was scared that the way he argued with me, meant that he was not going to meet my needs.
I have no fear of living without excitement, or newness. I am not looking for a movie star or prince charming. I am looking for someone that will be a partner. But at the same time i am healing from very unhealthy relationships and having trouble navigating and communicating.
I told him about my wants in a relationship...I never told him my wants before. I was afraid to.
This is totally brilliant.
Originally Posted by JujuB
I I think my big fear is being powerless and not validated and entering into a relationship with someone that does not want to meet my needs. I was scared that the way he argued with me, meant that he was not going to meet my needs.
I very much have this fear too, from my dad mainly but also from XH.
I think for years I asked XH for quite specific things, and he just carried on as before. They were small things to start with, mainly to do with helping me with the everyday humdrum mechanics of life. And then there were things to do with how he treated me. One recurring one was asking him to text me and let me know if he was going somewhere else after the pubs had shut. It was never a very nice feeling waking up at 3.00am and not knowing where your partner was and how long they would be out for. Maybe about a third of the time he might text me and let me know, but a lot of the time he wouldn't. I would ask him to, explain why and explain how it made me feel if he didn't. I thought that by just saying those things, he would do them.
Well, I learnt that me saying things was half of the equation. The other half of the equation is how the other person deals with it.
This whole scenario went on for *years*. I slowly got more and more upset as XH carried on seemingly only occasionally (and never consistently) doing what I asked him, and most of the time not. Now I realise that he was behaving exactly like his father behaves.
It got to the stage where he was EA with if think a number of women. With the ones I found out about I always explained how it made me feel and asked him not to. Just from that point on, he completely ignored me. When I explained to him how it made me feel, it was like a total stone wall. Nothing at all came back to me in acknowledgement, let alone interaction. And over time the stakes got higher, he became more involved with the next woman, and then the next. And I just assumed that because I said how I felt, he would listen, acknowledge and take it on board. But he never did, and he never changed his behaviour.
This also went on for a number of years. It got to the point where it was majorly impact on my health, psychologically first and then pretty severely physically.
Add that on top of my dad, who was an inveterate and super skilled gaslighter.
I know that in the past I've been attracted to men (people) with big personalities. And I know that it's because it's easier for me just to mould myself around them than have to work on my own sense of self.
The first 'R' if you like after XH left was with someone who was very much in that mould. He was even a heavy drinker too. But I'd already started growing beyond that kind of person...and this was only three months after XH had left the house. This man just got frustrated and angry with me, pretty much all the time. And it was all fault according to him, for not being compliant and giving him what he wanted, straight away. I was much more for taking things very slowly and taking the time to work out how I was feeling and if I was enjoying things. Whenever I brought anything up that was to do with what I needed, he would become really aggressive and literally shout me down, until I was on the floor, in tears, or having a panic attack. It took me a good few months to break it off with him. Too long really, as it did hold me back a bit.
So now I'm at the point where I'm so scared to say what I need and want. I'd rather just retreat into myself and run away. And if I'm in a situation where I can't do that, I get super stressed out and totally over react (to the point where I'm having a panic attack. Fight or flight I guess).
But that's not going to help me in any way. It's not going to help me be an adult. And it's not going to help me in any sort of R (one that goes beyond a few dates). So I'm trying to learn that it's safe for me to say what I want and need, and that I should say those things, and I need to learn how to say them calmly. And that then I watch how the other person reacts and deals with it. Both those things are equally important.
They're both difficult for me, but the price of not doing either of those things is very, very high indeed. And not doing either of them, or doing one without the other, isn't going to help me inhabit my own space in any way.
