Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE Virgin Surprise 15 Years Later -- newbie post

This took an interesting turn and I'm glad, I was getting tired of being a complainer. I'm pleased to see such an interesting mix of people on this site and to find people who can clearly fuse Christianity with the hard nuts-and-bolts reality of life. It is one of those issues I struggle most with.

Dr. Laura and others have indicated before that the "Three A's" are valid reasons for divorce and she adds a fourth -- the three are "Abuse", "Adultery", "Addiction" and she has added "Fraud". Most of these words can be warped pretty far if you go out your way to do it -- is sexual refusal a form of "abuse"? Is it if it fosters Sin through lust and even jeopardizes the spouse's soul? Have I committed adultery when I wish and fantasize about my wife, but in moments of temptation succumb and look at pictures and stories that are clearly about others? Was it fraud when my wife in our celibate dating days led me to believe she was interested in an intimate sexual relationship as long as it was within the confines of marriage?

Had I to do it over again, I really think I would have gotten the marriage anulled within the first year once it became clear what was what. Truth is I was very ignorant (as are most 21 year olds) of personality types, my own emotional makeup, etc. At this point, however, with children there is no way I could justify it to myself for anything short of adultery in classic sense (sex with another guy), abuse (in the form of physically beating the H*** out of me) or addiction to an illegal drug or alcohol (she doesn't smoke, but I don't think cigarettes count)

I can certainly appreciate CeMar's point of view and I'm thankful he shared it with me. I may not act on it but it is nice to know I'm not the only one to think it. Billy Graham even famously said once that "I've never considered divorce, but I've occasionally considered murder!"

Things are so much more complicated now. W and I actually "made love" if you can call it that yesterday for only the 2nd time in 10 months. Honestly, this may make me sound like scum, but I was a total "breast guy" and it is so hard having a woman without breasts -- I don't know how to turn her on. She doesn't like oral which leaves what? Blowing in her ear? Grabbing at it? Having her double her ideal weight (120 lbs over) and the other stuff -- I mean I'm 170 lbs, reasonably fit, a good provider, I don't think I'm a total toad. It's bad enough she doesn't care about her appearance for herself, but it is a total insult to me too.

I don't know. In my better moments, I think I should be darn happy to have a faithful woman without the complications of divorce and child custody. She is a good cook, a great mother, and generous with her time to other people which reflects well on me since I facilitate her ministeries with others.

I forget who mentioned it, but regarding love styles, we are not so different on that with the exception of sex, but we are very different on communication styles. My family was a bunch of "yellers" so I am perfectly content to have strong outbursts and then kiss-and-make-up. Her family never raised a voice in twenty years. That is a huge difference.

The "His Needs, Her Needs" class used a concept of "the love bank" with kind behavior being deposits and conflict being withdrawals. On that scale, we are almost always hovering right around being overdrawn.

Any of you want to let me in on your stories at all? I'm interested to know who else is dealing with what? I don't want to just be a taker.

Hi,

Things you can do to turn on a woman without breasts (take with a grain of salt because I am HD)

1) Address all the secondary erogenous zones with your tongue; back of knees, belly, soles of feet etc.

2) Talk dirty- it doesn't have to be offensive, just keep up a running patter about how hot she makes you and how soft her skin is etc.

3)Clitoral stimulation indirect and direct(absolutely essential). An example of indirect might be rubbing your head between her legs while you're both still dressed.

4) Be a little forceful- pull her on to your lap and make her stay there for a while, grab her ass when she walks past you in the kitchen etc. (Maybe this one is a bad idea with a LD woman, I may have to retract)

Also, you need to investigate why she doesn't like oral. It may be a complicated problem involving her body image but it might just be that you need a better razor (LOL)

NoMojoBlue,

Before saphubby gets a chance to respond with "but she would never.....", I just got to say you are such a laugh when you give advice because of the insights it gives us into the way you (and possibly other HD women) think.

If my hands start to move up her inner thigh, she locks her knees together so my hand can't even get near her erogenous zones...even sometimes when we are in the midst of having sex. Analyzing this behavior through Passionate Marraige by Schnarch, this her behavior has to do with the way she lives her life...get to close and I shut you off. I will say that I've taken Schnarchs advice and have no longer taken it personally because it's simply "her problem". In the past I would adjust my LM to accommodate her and make her happy (so I could feel good about myself) which in itself is a reflection of the way I live my life...which is also the wrong way because I'm seeking to please in order to receive validation (in this case, my love making skills etc).

saphubby,

I personally don't think you're looking for reasons, valid or otherwise, to divorce. You're looking for reasons to stay married. Your situation sounds much like mine. You love your wife. You love your family. You'd do anything to provide and protect them. But you're dying, just a little every day. ("A little support here would really help!")

First off, I don't believe your wife is doing this to spite you. She's not on some ego trip. She just doesn't want to have sex. With her, it's nothing personal - but how can you not take it personally when you're aching, horny and just plain in need of intimate, personal, adult female contact?

I've prayed long and hard about this. Once I prayed "What am I supposed to do with this woman?" Came a reply! "Treat her with love, kindness and forgiveness." Now, I was ticked. "What's in it for me?!" Reply: "The Kingdom of God."

I believe that if you can do that you will have put Christ's message into practice. I've been trying for 7 years since then and I've failed time and again. I'm not giving up, though. There's more to this than just getting laid.

On another tack, my guess is that your wife has issues of her own. Did she grow up in an alcoholic household? Was she abused? (If there was no yelling in her family it sounds like things could have been very controlled.) If that is the case (alcohol, abuse) she needs to get help - and you are not the one to help her. All you can do is be supportive. If she's not interested remind her that her happiness and mental health affects not just her but you and especially the kids. Here's where you might use what authority you have - to get her to seek help.

Please pardon me if I've made wrong assumptions.

NHTom

Thanks, NHTom. I wish I had spoken so simply and clearly. I've received the same guidance that you have.

Jonathan

(Who is easily distracted when he sees an opportunity to pull out his Greek tools ;-> )

NMB,
I loved your post! It really helps me understand how things are so different for HD and LD.

1. Stimulate her secondary erogenous zones - This would just put my LDW to sleep

2. Talk dirty - This would begin a lecture on how offensive I was being by speaking "indecently"

3. Clitoral stimulation - Not unless and until she is ready to cum, otherwise, that's off limits!

4. Grab her butt - This one would just get me slapped.

What a wonderful world we HDs live in. And what a shame the LDs have no concept of how great it is.

Mike

Sorry not to have written for a while. In addition to other stuff, I have a brother going through a divorce because his wife had an affair through an on-line self-help site for people quitting smoking. I therefore heavily monitor my internet use to 30 minutes or so every 3 or 4 days. W saw me on this site and I told her the truth -- I found a place where I could get encouragement from people in similar circumstances. Please have patience if you post and I don't respond right away.

I have to say, I am a) glad I am not the only person in a mismatch of drives like this. Like any trial in life, it is somehow comforting to finally know you were not singled out for whatever you face in life. And b) it is nice to see that a percentage of people here share the interesting twist that faith adds to this issue. And finally c) that you all have gotten the same advice and/or gravitated to similar coping mechanisms that I have. For a change, I don't feel like I'm going nuts over this. Thank you all.

NoMojoBlues has some good suggestions and I appreciated the tongue-in-cheek or rather tongue-other-places. I will make a diligent effort to practice this next time. I do have to do a slight snicker over AtlDave and CeDad48's comments. My wife loves her feet rubbed -- it doesn't tickle her, but it never fails to put her to sleep which kind of defeats the purpose.

One aside -- do you all find that being with a LD spouse twists physical intimacy? I know in my heart that if I had married a HD, sex would be about far more than two sweaty bodies. Somehow, when it is not a mutual thing and there is so much baggage, stress, and build-up it does become like "just grab her butt, see if it is the 1/100 time and otherwise protect yourself from rejection". Paradoxically, the LD reinforces what I assume their stereotype is that it is just meaningless physical activity rather than the deepest bonding possible.

Regading history -- no alcoholism (folks are tee-totallers). Inquired many times about abuse, but I really believe there has been none -- no physical, no sexual -- the closest I can come is that as a child of about 12 with the onset of menses, her hymen was extra thick and had to be broken by her Pediatrician so she didn't get infections. She and folks were open to it and everything since confirms that she really was a virgin. Even with the hymenectomy, as I mentioned before she is still really small. Honestly the only trauma I can think of is the mismatch in the size of part a and slot b and the initial trauma of that during the first month or so of marriage. We have talked multiple times since and she assures me there is no longer any physical pain, she enjoys it, she orgasms, but that's it.

Sad to say, I think it is as simple as the primary sex organ (the brain) being not engaged. Coming from a religious upbringing, I think like many of us, pornography and fantasy were "guilty pleasures" at best. In her case, there was no effort at it -- no pleasure so there would be no guilt. The lack of fantasy life leads to a complete lack of imagination and drive. The very few times I've begged her and been able to get her to "put her mind into it" even when she didn't start out interested, it worked fine -- she got worked up, we had a nice time. I can't fathom why that is so much to ask for on a more periodic basis, but I guess for her it is a huge thing for me to ask for.

NHTom hits very close to home about trying and praying to find loving behavior in spite of with hope for the future. It is a very hard road to follow. At times, I feel bad because I think of all the people who lose loved ones in wars, etc. and know they would be grateful for whatever time whether or not physical affection was involved. But selfishly, it never feels like enough without it. It is so hard not to take the feelings of rejection personally.

Hope I didn't wait too long that you'all gave up on talking to me.
SH.

sap,

I've been through those exact same throughts about the LD mind and the possibility of some deep, hidden issues that are preventing them from living in the real world. Despite hearing it over and over, I was having a hard time believing that someone could be naturally LD. By the same token, I think us HDs start behaving in ways that might make them more LD than they naturally are as a response to their being LD. Does that make sense?

Now, I would have never believed it if I hadn't felt it last night but my brain wasn't into it as I passed by the candle-lit bedroom knowing that my W was about to initiate a LM session. I actually felt the same kind of "pressure" that she's been feeling around me. My brain was not there at all and neither was my physical response (I tried to arouse myself in the shower beforehand with no luck). I was terrified. In an LD woman's case, physical arousal might increase desire like SSM says. In my case, my W fortunately gave me mental arousal (eroticism) at the very beginning and that was all it took to start up my engines. Very bizzare. But back to my point...if an LD feels anything like I was feeling, then I finally "get it".

BTW. Marrying an HD wouldn't typically work. More than likely, you would become LD and irritated by all the advances and she would turn up the volume which would make you even more LD. I dated an HD girl and the same thing happened to me. PM explains all of it.

My wife started turning me out to stud about 7 1/2 years ago. Seems it was triggered by what they call "unrealized expectations."

Apparently, she finally figured out I would never earn enough money to pay off the mortgage in 4 years, have her quit her job and send the kids to private school.

I asked her how many years she expected to live after she
stopped working. She said about 50 years.

I told her my $ 60,000 salary plus the fact that companies
usually retire you at about age 40 meant that it would be very difficult.

So no sex.

Now she works about 100 hours per week and I finally lost my "last" job --- so I decided to not work at all.

Well that hasn't helped the situation, but then again I wasn't getting any before I stopped working so what did I expect ?

So now I spend at least 2 1/2 hours a day walking, running or weight training to stay in top shape. I hope to have a few years of sex before I die -- probably with someone else.

I'll no doubt thank her after we split up the "community
property." I'll miss my kids, but the thought of being put in a lonely cold grave unloved is tougher to handle for me.

Hey 2X...I guess I have a problem here. Take sex out of the calculation of your marriage, and I see a woman who is working her butt off, and a lazy husband too self-absorbed to do anything but work on his body. Maybe I'm missing something here, but giving up on working isn't going to make you more attractive to her. So I see your contribution to the problem as MAJOR.

Really, clue me in if you think I'm off base here, but my free piece of advice is to get off your rock-hard ass and get a job.

Hairdog, who thought your screen name was a hoot.