Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Going the Distance (Saying ILY Pt. 6)

All of this is gaslighting and it is an abuse technique.

It doesn't matter if someone is disordered or not, if the experts can't agree on it then sure as tell freezes over amateurs can't.

I am now an abuse counsellor, mainly for women at the moment or in single sexed R. On this board I have seen and read some terrible things. Awful stuff.

I know this is true, I often have difficulty persuading posters here that their R is abusive. I have even had posters tell me about rape, poisoning, theft, TRO and arrests and still the poster denies it.

Poor disordered wayward spouse will snap out of it, get back to being the sweetie that they were originally. This will not happen, the sweetie pie is a fiction a projection and NOT REAL. There is no MLC, no wakeup, no return to the sugary love bombing stage unless it too is part of a cycle.

Let me be even clearer I am not referring to the majority of sitches based on walkaways where both parties need a kick up the backside.

I am saying abuse and to my great horror in the early days here, I didn't call it clearly enough. I hope by doing so I encourage the LBS to think on it.

Let's just talk about narc behaviour, not all narc are abusers although without exception abusers map on the narc scale. Narcissism is a characteristic not a disease, it implies a certain behaviour which marks very high on a scale. Generally as abusers get older they get higher on the narc scale. Then ultimately they decompensate.

Narc scores go up and down over time, we all need a narc score between 8 and 14 to have healthy self interest.

The G is a psychopath now called anti social personality disorder. And sociopath is the over riding definition for cluster B. In the same way that the genus Cat includes lions, tigers and moggies. Some traits are less fatal than others. Having no conscience ranks pretty high on the fatal list.

Some types have low self esteem others have high off the planet. Yet others are addicts and compulsive (also fairly fatal) with poor self soothing skills. They all fit the definitions.

Yet others have physiological illness like depression or mania or both in the package call bipolar. These are not character disorders as is schizophrenia or anxiety. They are physiological ones. But as a wise Cadet once pointed out to me, they can be co morbid with cluster B. There are other disorders too.

So it takes an expert to diagnose. My GP diagnosed the G as manic anti social with addiction. It was in my medical charts as I have complex PTSD (also not a disorder).

So let's go back to abuse, abuse is about CONTROL, getting resources. These peeps are masters at spotting the susceptible. We walk around with neon signs saying ripe for picking. They are clever, manipulative, and predators. You are prey, you are a target which they will come to pick clean. In decompensating state (which is often seen in the MLC section) they can be quite randomly evil.

You can't love these folk better, you can't get them to realise what an awesome human you are, and unless they want more flesh from your bones they won't even fake it. You can't guilt or Shane them. It is in their character to be this way.

Further they have been doing this all their lives and awareness is new to the LBS being abused. Abuse comes in lots of flavours.

This includes anti social abuse such as in my sitch and your Orange. Getting you arrested and lying is clear indication. Persuading you to spend money to buy them a Porsche and have the loan in your name another. Trying to steal the LBS and the MH, separate the LBS from their children yet another anti social.

But often it's hard to persuade the target to read abuse. Once you know then you can never unknown.

Let's address responsibility of the LBS, am I saying blame? Not at all.

Orange is right this is not the targets fault. Ever.

But we have to know why we were a target, otherwise as I see over and over it's the same abuser with a different face. To me this means as a target we examine who we are, explore the reason and grow through this. Otherwise we R or we choose a new predator.

You can't win with these predators, but you can survive and later thrive. The raptor has a huge chunk of you and can use children to abuse. By being the safe secure boundary setting parent you clear the path to knowledge for children. Reuniting with these abusers or placating destroys children.

The abuser is after resources, all of them, for their new lives and can pull every trick they know. That is why I always advise that a DNA test is done on kids as it cuts the possibly of that manipulation tactic. So get pat tests.

The focus on your sitch is on YOU. The ways to get through a D with these folks is to have the end goal in mind. And that will always be the best for the kids, getting joint custody or sole if the sitch is very crazy, stay in the MH as that makes custody issues clearer, have enough cash to live. Broadly that is the very best you can do, sometimes the abusers just discard and do a runner.

So I have written about observer mode, which isn't detachment but a technique that can be used to give breathing space. It means that you document like a journalist and stay away. Does it mean not doing the loop we loop? No. These sitches are sometimes so crazy and nuts that it can be distressing to an extreme. Detaching isn't always possible. But not reacting or shooting yourself in the foot is possible.

Count yourself lucky if you get out of the trench intact with these predators.

So stop reacting. Document record and get a great L. And STFU to your abuser.

My thoughts

V

Abuse resources

This is your starter for 10. It refers to abuse and being a target of it.

I will add some techniques to thread two.

Please note the analysis section with scoring. It is developed from the Freedom program which is available online and was originally written for females. I have modified it to suit all targets. There are many posters on there. Please add your own story to it and links to your threads.

Some of it is distressing and it will assist you knowing and removing the labels. It will also help you to distinguish victim stance from target stance. Targets struggle with this.

Victims are often deluded or the abuser themselves.

Trust this helps

V

Taking that to the BANK.

You rock Vanilla.

V, I like your final advice, though I would word it differently. LOL

I also like that you say it isn't a disease. We attach the term "disorder" and "disease" to things all of the time when we shouldn't. Because in all of this there is choice.

And yes, this is where I disagree with you (similar to my response to OK), being a victim IS a choice. I have counseled countless people that were victims of abuse, and even when the cold hard facts were presented to them, they refused to believe it. These are rational, intelligent humans that were making a choice to not believe it.

In one case, an abuser with a drug problem went off to the military. I counseled this woman to please make sure, if she got back together with him, to get out of dodge. He had too many fellow addicts and drug connections in their hometown for him to have a chance. I equated it to a chocoholic living in a house of chocolate. She ignored me. Had 2 kids with him, and within 4 years he was back into his drug addiction and trying to kill her for leaving him. Red flags and warnings were all over the place. She CHOSE to ignore them.

Another woman was beaten by her bf. I counseled her that ONE time was ONE time too many. She left him. Then she went back to him. He had changed (though there was no IC or anything to change him). They married and within the first year he beat her so badly she was hospitalized. She left him for good after that but it all could have been avoided if she had had a higher standard for change.

Another woman was also beaten by her husband one time. She was going to leave, but the H got IC, intensive therapy. Admitted to having a problem and changed. They are happily married 30 years after the incident with no repeat of the incident. Proving change can happen in the abuser, but it takes work. And it takes the victim ENFORCING real change, and not enabling by glossing over it.

No I am not a trained counselor, nor do I claim to be. But I have counseled privately with many others in abusive relationships, some successfully, some not so much.

But the truth is they all have a choice. Both abuser and victim. (Note, I know you touched on this with: "But we have to know why we were a target, otherwise as I see over and over it's the same abuser with a different face. To me this means as a target we examine who we are, explore the reason and grow through this. Otherwise we R or we choose a new predator." But many many many victims do NOT do that self-examination and therefore DO bear some blame for being in the abusive R over and over again.)

Hey Buddy, How goes the vigil in the lighthouse?

Everything is calm and cool. She hasn't been byfor the past 10 days, and I haven't heard from her since then until last night. She sent a random text saying I needed to apologize to a former co worker of hers. This former co worker hates my wife and was actually the one that got her banned from the bar. I had stopped in there for a beer after work and the co worker was extremely rude to me (assuming bc she doesn't like my wife or bought into the rumors that I physically abused her). Whatever, I couldn't care less. Anyway, I didn't tip her because I saw no reason to tip someone in the service industry if they treat you poorly. So somehow it had gotten back to W that I didn't tip her, so now I'm supposed to apologize to her. I thought it was funny that she even sent the text because their hatred towrds each other is mutual. W wanted and tried to get her fired a few months ago when she still worked there. I guess she had heard about it through the grapevine and realized she hasn't rattled my cage in a bit and it gave her an excuse to. Oh well... things are doing good here...

I would akso like to note that W said she wanted the kids this past Thursday night overnight when she was here last Wednesday. Again, no call no show...

Been keeping busy and having fun with the kids. Last night, we went to a friend's house for a pool party. The kids ended up wanting to spend the night and play video games with friend's son, so we all stayed and had a sleepover with video games and Chinese food. Today was the first day of swim lessons for the middle 2 kids. They had a blast. Probably going to go to a 4th of July parade on the 4th and watch the fireworks with the kids. They seem to be dealing with everything pretty well for the most part. I know it's been hard on them not having their mom around, but at the same time, I think it makes it somewhat easier for them with her being totally absent...

Also, got a text from my best friend saying that someone threw something at his windshield and broke it. He was parked in a parking lot near a local bar that W apparently just got hired at. (She's having a hard time keeping jobs) He told me he suspects it was her. W was at the brewpub where he and OM work later that night. She likes to show up when OM is bartending despite the fact she has been banned there by the manager/owner. Anyway, another employee called my BF and told him W was up there talking about his broken windshield and telling people that she thinks it was me that did it. Along with the usual BS of me beating her and stalking her. Funny thing is, BF had not told anybody about the broken windshield yet, but somehow she knew about it and was talking about it...

Wow man. The gaslighting is getting far worse. Including criminal acts like destruction. Classy. She's gonna end up in jail.

mtb you should really let the police know about that last part. Not only is that destruction of property but it is false testimony if she tries to tell the police the same story.

She has been belly crawling at the bottom for weeks now.

Steve I am leaving our discussion on victimhood for the moment as it would be useful on the abuse thread.

MTB WW is decompensating very quickly.

Let her. You only have anecdotal evidence that she is accusing you of things. That's not good at all.

Let her fall as far as she needs to. Let others report her for damaging stuff. It would be useful though to have short written statements that she us saying these things. Then it isn't hearsay but witnessed.

WW is what is known in the trade as a reactive compulsive. In layman speak bat shite crazy loco. She won't be able to hold her stuff together. And you aren't seeing her, she isn't visiting the house.

I do recommend keeping a daily diary.

She says you hit her? When exactly?

Oh you were in Tolado that day? Or shopping at Wal-Mart, here is the receipt!

Buy stuff even small items on debit or credit cards. Need gum? Pay by card? Cup of coffee? Card. Send an email, make a phone call (tower pin point), anything that proves where you are.

It's painful but gracious it works.

It's going to be ok, she already shot herself in one foot, now here comes the next bullet.

She is desperate for attention. All it takes now is OM finding another's WW to drop her knickers, then she is fully exposed. (So to speak)

It's so sad, but stay strong for your kids.

V