Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers WAW or WW? What should I do to save my MR.

sorry I meant Wyoung not hongaku

If you do not know her love language, then chances are you have not shown her love in a way she "felt" it. Make sense? Your love language may be not be her LL. One way to have an idea of what it may be (without asking her) is to think back on how she would demonstrate her love for you. Would it be acts of service, physical affection, words of affirmation, or little gifts to show you she was thinking of you?

I agree that her love tank is empty. If she has felt resentment for a long time, then you must be patient in expecting her feelings to change.

I want to pass along something I feel is extremely important for you. Almost everything you do, is seen by her as pressure. Showing your emotions, talking about the relationship, asking her questions about her feelings for you, and involving her parents........place tremendous emotional pressure on her.

If your young W does not work outside of the home, and she does not have friends nearby, and you were not meeting her emotional needs.......then she is very depressed and lonely. She sees her life changed since having the child. She may even resent him. Not b/c she doesn't love him, but b/c everything seem to change after he was born. It is not uncommon for a woman to feel this way, under these circumstances. It also makes her feel very guilty. She can begin to question herself if she is a "good" mother.

Every woman needs female friends. Even having just one friend to talk to will help with the loneliness. I'm not suggesting you try to pick out her friends. However, the two of you should have socialized with other couples and made friends. If you are still living together, maybe you could start socializing more? Don't pressure.



It is typical of a depressed mother who has not had the emotional support she needed.




Everyone has a love tank. Her tank has been empty for a long time, and she probably feels you are not the man who can make her feel loved any longer. That does not make it true, but it might just be her feelings at this time. Don't ever argue with how she feels. Only your W knows how she feels. It is very arrogant for a man to tell his W how she feels.

It is not uncommon for women to reject compliments. Some women think it would be seen as arrogant to simply say "thank you". They think that arguing with the compliment shows a sign of humility.

I hope you will not see "words of affirmation" simply giving her a compliment about her physical appearance. It does not have to sound like an obvious compliment, either. I would suggest you find positive things to say about the way she keeps the home attractive, warm & welcoming. Tell her how you appreciate how she keeps your clothes clean and pressed. When eating a meal she has prepared, show how well you enjoy a particular dish by asking her to make more of soon, and telling her how well she prepares it. Try to find all the positive things about her. You can tell her how proud you feel when people see you together. How proud you are for them to know she is your W. You can compliment her about her looks......but try to stay away from sexy comments for now.

Never compare her to not doing something as well as other women......especially your mother or her mother.



That's okay. It just shows how much she needs to hear that she is good at something, or better than the norm. A wife wants her H to see her as being beautiful, special, smart, talented, etc. More than just a sex object. So, if she says something negative about herself, will it hurt you or disgust you if you give her affirmation?

Giving her validation does not mean you agree with her. If she is criticizing herself, you can say something like, "I'm so sorry you feel that way". Mainly show you are hearing what she says. Don't argue with her. Just listen.



How would you describe her personality?



No, it sounds passive-aggressive.

If she contacts you, don't be cold and give her the silent treatment. And, don't make it sound as if son doesn't miss his mother. I think that would be a big mistake, if she felt her son did not miss/need her. I don't mean you should make her feel guilty, but don't go the opposite direction, either.



Her feelings are common for an unhappy, lonely and depressed young mother.

Do you know if there is any family history of depression or other mental health issues? Do you know why she refuses to see a doctor....other than she doesn't think she's depressed? How long since her last checkup?

sandi2, thank you so much for taking an interest in my situation and offering these extremely valuable advices. Your overall assessment that my W is a "unhappy, lonely and depressed young mother" perfectly describes her status quo. My overall questions is how I should approach this. Obviously I need to change a lot, which I have been working on and was acknowledged by her. I need to validate. But do I detach, and to what degree do I implement sandi's rule? Most of them I agree 100% and I wish I had seen them earlier. There are some that I am not entire sure. Let me be more specific.

-- rule #3 says "do not point out good points in marriage ..." In the past, when I talk to her about how we fell in love in the past, she would cry. This made me wonder if doing this will help her to recover feelings for me.

-- rule #8 says " do not buy gifts". But when I did it for our anniversary, she clearly liked the gift. She appreciates that I still cares her so much.

-- rule #32 says "do not believe anything they say....". Is this only directed to the negative words she says? Does this contradict with rule #25?

Some of your questions
My wife started working this year (2018). She also worked before. But she was not in 2017. And it was 2017 that did most of the damage.

When she says negative things about herself, it is hurting me to affirm that. But I worry that will hurt her even more.

Her personality overall is lack of self confidence, and passive. She often times feel regretted or embarrassed by small things.

Her family doesn't have any history of mental illness. She grow up in a very loving family. She has been an extremely good girl, but now she despise that and thinks she was not a normal girl in the past. She is very stubborn. The only reason she refuses to seek any professional help is that she thinks it's not that bad. There might be others but she doesn't say so.

We did make some friends (couples with kids) when we moved to our current place. We held multiple parties in the last year. However, she wasn't close to those friends in the sense that she wouldn't share any of this with them. Before son and I took the trip, I asked one of the friends (we live in the same subdivision) to keep her company. When the fried volunteer to come over and chat, she refused it and immediately asked me if I told them our situation. I denied. She is on her guards and is not willing to talk to anyone. She often says she is perfectly okay by herself and no need to be looked after.

She finally texted me today after 2 days in silence to check up on us (mostly for S4, video chatted a couple of minutes with S4). She did notice that I should shave and told me so.

Do not confuse DB detaching with distancing. In your particular situation, I think perhaps your W felt that you were emotionally disconnected.....or distant. Therefore, don't give the impression that you are cold, sullen, or angry. You can talk with her, conduct yourself in a polite, friendly manner. DB detaching means that you mentally detach from the emotional drama. Some H's become obsessed about the W and how to save their MR.......and it takes over their ability to think wisely. If you are too emotionally attached after the bomb drop, you will display unattractive qualities in a man.

To learn how to validate, read Wonka's thread, the validation cheat sheet. It is located close to the top of first page in Newcomers forum. It gives many great examples.

Sandi's 37 rules are just a general guide to help a newcomer know how to get started. If a rules does not apply to your situation, then discard it.



It does not help restore her feelings for you. It places emotional pressure on her, and that will cause her to pull away from you. It's best that you stop doing all your methods of trying to restore her feelings, b/c you are actually doing the things to lose her.



Again, this is in reference of placing emotional pressure on her. Some men wait until the M is in trouble, then try to buy their W's affection by bringing home gifts, flowers, etc.



Ha.......good question, and I see what you mean. Rule #25 is about listening to her. One way to validate a person is to genuinely hear what they are saying. Many men get in the habit of doing something else while their W is trying to talk. Some H's never look at the W.........which is extremely rude and hurtful. As long as she is speaking respectfully, you need to look at her when she is talking to you (unless you are driving a vehicle). Looking her in the eyes, shows her that what she's saying is important to you. When a W poors out her emotions and her H just brushes it off.......he invalidates her. He is showing her she is not important, and he is not interested in what she has to say. Your W has low self esteem, so when she is having a conversation with you, look in her eyes while she speaks, nod your head, etc.

Rule #32 was not intended to be a contradiction, but I can see how you could interpret it as such. It was actually taken from the book, Divorce Remedy. Some spouses that want to leave the M are not logical, b/c they are being led by their emotions. They will make completely illogical statements and actions. If you take every word to be 100% accurate, you would soon feel as if you were losing your mind. Therefore, don't take to heart the craziness you see and hear from her. But let me add that you don't tell her she is crazy, or lying, or that you don't believe her. Understand? This rule is just for you to bear in mind that she will say & do unpredictable, irrational things.



Why are you affirming the negative things she says about herself? Can you give me an example?

Are you confusing all of this with LL words of affirmation? You might try googling examples of how to give words of affirmation.



What was the source of feeling so negative about herself? Who beats her down and makes her feel worthless?

What type of work did she do when she was in the workforce?



Would you say she has taken on a spirit of rebellion?

Do you know if she had close friends when she was growing up, or has she always been a loner? If she doesn't want friends coming over, then don't push them on her.

Does she have sisters?

Wyoung,

I read your whole story. It matches my stitch (Except that you have a kid) so closely that it echoes back. I have been in a similar situation like you are for a long time ago. However My wife is physically separated compared to you where you have been in house separation. I am not sure how much in house separation helps. I think its a slow killer. And lo behold, I am pretty sure just like you, your wife doesn't have any kind of an affair going on. Sandi2 can affirm. At least in my case in house separation didn't help and my wife felt she wanted more space and moved out. Now we are on the verge of divorce with my divorce final hearing closing in.
I did the same mistakes like what you did - begging, pleading, crying etc. Those never ever help. Like you pointed out, the first and foremost thing is for you to fix yourself emotionally. You should not waver no matter what your wife says. Even if she throws a rock at you you should stand still without wavering. And like many points mentioned above, you should validate. The biggest challenge in validation in both our cases i feel is our wives are just too angry at us. When they talk to us, anger spills out like water, when you validate (Without emotions, and strong facial expressions) they still don't get it as the anger is overpowering. TIME is the only factor here. And the one good thing you are doing is physically you are away for a month. That is very good but 1 month is too less a time. Somehow she should not feel the presence of you or your kid. It reminds her of past miseries or initiates some bad trigger thoughts in her mind making it really annoying and angry for her.
And you are absolutely right! Just like my wife, she is going through depression. And it is not mild. Its deep. You cannot suggest therapy to them. It is very difficult as it will backfire on you. They should only realize and figure out what is best for them.
My mutual friends actually met my wife. She has committed to the fact that our relationship is done. She will take about 2-3 years to recover. That is the kind of timeline at least i should plan to look at if at all there is a chance of reconciliation. Imagine how much sad and depressed they are and how difficult it is for them to overcome the situation. At this point of time, they simply don't care for anything around or society. They simply self destruct. My wife even told my mutual friends that she does not know whether she is doing right or wrong , but getting back to me is an impossible thing. All they need at this time is peace of mind - Alone & depressed. I feel in your situation, you should simply be humble and not be emotional at all. Whatver your wife throws at you, take it with a pinch of salt. If she is too abusive and you can't take it anymore, It is OK to remove yourself from that situation in a polite manner and come back later when things have cooled down. My wife has been angry at me all the while and I don't know how long (years) it will continue for? That is their defense mechanism and you cant help it. After living with that anger for 6 years and retaliating most of the times, I realized changing my approach after our R went south. I simply listened to her, her anger, and tolerated her heavy mood swings. When you face your wife, maintain a very good eye contact. Be very confident, as if you dont care that if she leaves you, you will still be fine. Maintain a very strong & confident facial expression. Even a slightest facial worry during her verbal outrage, might cause her to think otherwise. That and validation is the only way you can win your wife back with love!

THIS!!!!!!

Nutcrac, please note this. You have been misquoting sandi in your own thread (I'll even go so far as to say misrepresenting what sandi says). You were DISTANT FROM YOUR WIFE, that doesn't mean that detachment, and not pressuring or pursuing her won't work.

Wyoung please learn from these WISE WISE words from sandi.

Yes Steve85. This is exactly what I am trying to acheive with my wife as well. When I meant to come out of Dark, this was what i intended to achieve. The initial days, my wife was too angry with me. Now at least she is approachable although still has too much anger in her. I did not misquote. May be my interpretation was different and wasn't conveyed right i guess.

Sandi2 - This above quote is an excellent piece of advice. Note that you point out "In your particular situation" and you give a slightly emotional connect based advice. I think apart from your standard 37 rules that you have listed in this forum, you should mention some pointers to LBH where their WAW has simply left due to broken heart situation or depression. From what I understand, Wyoung and I are in very similar situations. Both our wives are upset with their spouses, self destructing and not seeking an affair. Just like Wyong's wife , my wife's love tank has gone empty too and shut down pretty much all lines of communcation. How do we ever emotionally connect to them without us reaching out to them?

Nutcrac, you are one stubborn dude! You are going to keep on until you get the answer you want, aren't you? LOL

The problem is you have no idea of the real reasons your W left. You have words and one of sandi's rules is BELIEVE NOTHING THEY SAY. The WAW RARELY RARELY RARELY says whats true. There are hundreds of reasons why they do this. To let you down easy. To spare your feelings. To make things go away faster. To end the current conversation. Because their culture says you show respect even when you don't want to. ETC ETC ETC

But sandi gave you the answer in the quote: "DB detaching means that you mentally detach from the emotional drama. Some H's become obsessed about the W and how to save their MR.......and it takes over their ability to think wisely. If you are too emotionally attached after the bomb drop, you will display unattractive qualities in a man."

And yes trying to reconnect with a WAW IS unattactive.

Lets spare this thread to wyoung and take it to my thread!