You need to keep one thing in mind, and one thing only.
That is DO SOMETHING even if it is wrong.
If you wait for your wife to change, given your current MO, then the stars will burn out before anything happens.
I intend no offense, and I have tried to tell you this in many nice ways, as have others - get off it and get moving.
DO SOMETHING.
Tell her what you think. Stop being demure with your wife, or is it 'whipped'?
Please tell us what you have discussed with your wife.
You have to take baby steps the same as the rest of us. So when are you going to take the first one and actually engage your wife in a serious conversation?
CeMar, I can't even begin to tell you what books will or won't help you or what approach will work or not. I can tell you that whatever it is you are doing now is NOT WORKING. So DO SOMETHING, new or different.
To everyone that reads this. If you are not engaging your spouse to help improve your relationship, and I don't mean with reading books, or trying to force feed your spouse your latest theory or someone else's theory, then you are most certainly spinning your wheels and likely wasting your time. I agree that it is a good thing to change one's self toward the better, but that is not going to solve your immediate problem.
I assure you, once your love life is up and running again, all the little relational problems that sabotaged your love life in the first place will jump up for attention. What you do about it THIS TIME, is what is important.
JUST DO IT!
Grow a pair today.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Guys I have been reading all that you have been writing about the PM book. As far as I can tell it is very simular<SP> to Divorce Remedy. Except this other guy uses a lot bigger words. I realized while I was reading DR that the book is not really about saving your marriage at all its about you becoming a better person. More open and loving. The by product of this is your marriage becoming better. It sounds like this is what the PM is about also. It sounds like this guy goes into more details of what is happening under the surface of the actions that each spouse is taking. It has made me very intreguied<sp>.
If you've been following my threads, you have seen that I've been practicing "holding onto myself" with at least 1 exercise per day. This means bringing up a something I would be otherwise scared to talk about in fear of upsetting my W. It's a very tiring process. I irritated her a little last night while I kept my cool.
Some of you think that changing yourself doesn't guarantee changes in your spouse? Well let me give you an update on my sitch as of 10 minutes ago....
My W has been almost annoyingly excessive with the "I love you"s today. I've never told her that saying that was something I liked so I know this isn't in response to any requests I've made. I went out to get lunch and when I came back, my W was lying on the sofa practically begging for a hug and kiss. Ok, it's not sex...BUT it IS completely different than anyway she's behaved in 10 years! It's a change. She's sort of seeming "wimpy" and "needy". Wow...if that's how I used to act to her, then it's no wonder she didn't want to f'ck me.
This might just be a temporary phase, but it indicates to me that I need to really work extra hard to maintain my momentum. The habits I'm learning are great no matter what happens.
You see...180s and trying to change yourself to be more desirable are not (really) what Corri and I are talking about. It's a matter of standing up, holding onto yourself and disclosing yourself to your partner. It's about seeing their resistance as a textbook case of them trying to keep you from differentiating yourself to keep the status quo. It's not conscious on their part...it's some sort of primitive program that takes over. Be yourself, keep a "smart" head, and have no fear.
I think the idea of a 180 is more about clearly asserting your individuality and your own strength. Don't focus on the easy 180s as they are a waste of energy. Go after the hard ones first. Shnarch even says something about how he likes to go after the big issues before the little ones.
Guys, this crap works. Good luck.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Quote: I went out to get lunch and when I came back, my W was lying on the sofa practically begging for a hug and kiss.
Just a thought, and forgive me if it sounds argumentative... it's not meant to be. I wonder if she *might* be trying to give you what she *thinks* you want, in order to manipulate you into feeling comfortable enough to back down...? Has she begun reading PM?
Quote: becoming a better person. More open and loving.
I'm sure you are just throwing these out as examples but I haven't once heard Dr. Schnarch speak to "outward ideals" like being "more loving". He's talking more about just being yourself, loving yourself, holding true to your convictions, having personal integrity (not outward integrity as popular culture might define it), changing the the behaviors that prevent your partner from growing. etc. He's very careful because ideas like "loving" and "integrity" have various meanings amongst different people. We have to be careful when we try to define what "being a better person" really means and how it affects the relationship. Some people associate being a "better person" with becoming more "christian-inhibited" which in the end would be "less loving" to a partner who likes kinky sex.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Quote.......... This is a matter of cause and effect. For every action there is a reaction. If you change, your spouse WILL change. There is no choice.
Yeah I agree with this concept. It happened to me. I got to a point where I just didn't care. H reacted to that by deciding he didn't want to loose me. Baby steps have been made, slowly, but a person certainly cannot change overnight. Sounds like the book would be good for me, since I don't know what I want anymore. Surely cannot hurt.
Dave, just to state where my question came from, consider the following:
Quote: When someone attempts to be more of a self in a relationship system, the absolutely predictable response from important others is, "You are wrong; change back; if you don't, these are the consequences!" In fact, if such responses do not occur, one's efforts to define more of a self are probably inconsequential - Murray Bowen, as quoted by Schnarch
I'm just wondering, because things seem to be coming pretty easily for you. That's not necessarily a cause for concern, but it could be. There's a possibility that you and your W are operating already on a MUCH higher level of differentiation than are me and my W, and if that's the case, then my question was out of line and I withdraw it...
Change cannot happen in every realtionship or the divorce rate would not be so high if true change occurred. There has to be a desire to make the change in the first place, a willingness to look and do things differently, the attempt to help your spouse with whatever the problems are. If those things that have been mentioned do not exist in your realtionship, you can try until doomsday, but life will pass you by in that relationship.
If you have found something that is working for you, and you are seeing changes in your relationship with your spouse, my contention is that your spouse is willing to work with you, however grudgingly or willingly, to reform the relationship. You are very lucky as this willnot happen in all instances.
