This is something that I got fomr PM while skimming through it at the bookstore. In effect here is what I interpreted: LD women loss attraction to their HD mates because their HD mates are accepting them for being LD. In effect, the LD woman KNOWS she is not good sexually for the man, she does not give the man the sex life he really deserves, but the fact that he ALLOWS her to give him crap, means that he does not stand up for himself and appears weak, which causes her to loss even more desire for him. What a vicious circle this becomes. Her desire for her man is dependant upon him NOT accepting her as she is.
Now my head is spinning big time. First, we are told that we need to accept ouir wives for who they are. Now I see that to be strong, confident men, we must NOT accept our wive for who they are if they are LD. To maintain our own integretiy, we must not tolerate their LD ways. Can someone tell me which way is right?
When you read the book thoroughly, one thing you will notice is how many times he talks about paradox. There are MANY paradoxes in this stuff, and that is what is so confusing about it. What you've posted is a GROSS over-simplification, and I'm sure you're aware of that also. There is a LOT to this, much more than can be summed up in a paragraph.
I think you can ACCEPT a human frailty, or limitation, in your spouse without agreeing to live with it as the status quo. You can look at them objectively and say, Yes I see that they struggle with that and I am sympathetic but I will require of them that they make an effort to get past it.
Here is a non-sex-related example. I love to procrastinate. This drives H crazy. He accepts that this is the way I am, although it doesn't mean that he LIKES it. He has drawn the line at being late for things. I used to make us arrive for church right at the ringing of the bell...no time to spare. This drove him nuts and he firmly set the boundary that this was not acceptable and it must change. And it did! (this was early on in our marriage) Now I am never, ever late.
He did not eliminate the procrastination from me, but he let me know where his boundary was and he has held firm with it. So he accepts that this is naturally my personality but he has set his boundary as far as what he is willing to put up with.
CeMar, You consistently make the same point and I totally agree with it. You want to feel DESIRED and that is the ultimate goal. With DESIRE everything else follows on. I was wondering if my W was married to someone really strong and sure of himself like say, Bruce Willis or John Travolta would she be able to maintain desire for them over many years. I suspect she could. I have to admit I'm more like Hugh Grant. She probably got bored with me forever letting her have her own way. SD
Just for a moment I want you to think about this from your W's point of view.
You know the information, the statistics, the problems, the answers. You have heard it said in several ways, and you believe it. You know there is a problem... but you just can't figure out a solution. Perhaps it's a bit of denial, but lets face it, we all use that on occasion.
Lets imagine your H (YOU) keep bringing up the problem, mentioning books, web sites, pamphlets, counsellors, tv shows, magazine articles... just enough to remind you daily that you are failing him in the marriage. He finds ways to tell you this daily. He masturbates and hopes you'll know about it, which you do. He goes online and chats with people about the problem (she may/may not know about this). He pulls back emotionally, and you know why without asking. You feel sexually unattractive (remember, it's her self esteem issue not yours) and so thinking about getting naked and letting go is totally stressing you out. Besides, he certainly isn't doing much of a job of hiding his feelings of disappointment/anger from you... why should you do anything to change? As far as you can see, it's him that will benefit, and that isn't exactly motivation for you. You may not believe that changes in you will result in changes in him...
Now, why is it you think she should embrace this whole idea???
Quote: These books actaully give encouragement to LD women that guys can actully reduce their desire for sex. This is the worst advice possible to LD woman. In order to have ANY hope of fixing a LD/HD relationship, both partners must change, but it is the LD partner that has the critical changes to make. The HD partners changes alone will have very little impact on the situation. That's what sucks about our situation, us HD guys can work on the situation, but the elephant in the room is the LD spouse. Us HD spouses really have no control over solving our situation, but the LD spouse has FULL control over the situation.
It may seem like she's running around with all the power, but she may be powerless over the one thing you feel she must control, her sexuality. Not being sexual may actually be a problem for her, but I can't blame her for not wanting to come to you with it... you aren't exactly coming across as Mr. Sensitivity here!
I have a terrible time with my body's reaction to my hormones... some days are 'wow' days, and some more are 'woops' days, where my body just doesn't respond no matter what I do. My dh is extremely sensitive to this, and he will go to extreme measures to help but often it's just not there. If my dh reacted even once like it was a huge problem to him (which I'm sure he's thought of more than once) I'd probably be devestated, and that would NOT make me feel secure in his reaction ever again. Can't see me initiating much after that!
I just want to show you the other side... and although I realize you MAY be Mr. Sensitivity at home, and doing all the right things, I imagine you W is able to 'read between the lines' and she knows what you are really thinking.
Quote: would she be able to maintain desire for them over many years. I suspect she could.
As the subject line says, desire is a funny thing, and it's much more complex than we normally believe. One thing I've learned recently, is that there are (at least) two levels of desire. The first is "desire from deprivation", and the second is "desire from fullness". Desire from deprivation is what you and CeMar are feeling - it's the frustrating, "I want it" feeling that comes from feeling an emptiness and wishing to fill it. It's also very much about reflected sense of self. We desire someone because we feel that they can "complete" us, because we have an emptiness inside us. We feel we cannot be "completely ourselves" without the other. That is (part of) what is meant by other-validated intimacy. Desire from fullness comes when we have a greater knowledge of who we are, and we get our validation of self-image from within instead of from the SO. We are standing on our own emotional legs, and the desire isn't so much to fill a void as to share ourselves with the other (intimacy). This is (part of) what is meant by self-validated intimacy. It is really complex, and I'm not doing it justice here. You guys keep asking if your W will be able to DESIRE you. I think the answer is "Yes", but I think it will take a different form than you would expect. If you both grow in your relationship, the desire will be there on both sides, but it won't be the same "desire from deprivation" that you're thinking of - it'll be something better. It will involve greater intimacy and trust, and with that will come a greater involvement with each other, and not only greater FREQUENCY, but greater QUALITY as well. But there's a lot of STUFF to get through first.
The other thing is, don't think of your current R problems as meaning something is wrong with your M. That's not it at all. EVERY couple experiences these problems, they are part of the natural PROCESS of marriage. The key comes in USING the difficulties to drive growth towards greater differentiation and intimacy. The book makes the point that a lot of couples back off from working on this, and give up (and get divorced) "just when things are getting interesting". I truly believe that now.
but often it's just not there. If my dh reacted even once like it was a huge problem to him (which I'm sure he's thought of more than once) I'd probably be devestated, and that would NOT make me feel secure in his reaction ever again. Can't see me initiating much after that!