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Well then a simple good luck with that and the end the discussion.

No I do not think she is having an A, just want to know how to handle it if that is thrown at me. I do not want to be caught off guard and become emotional.
I have thought about it and her having an affair does not change how I DB.
Stuff happens in life people make mistakes if at some point she wants to be in a R with me again I think we can make it work if we are both working on it.

Try to get out and do something fun to distract your mind before you meet. That really does help.

Just remember to stay calm and don't react. You are in control of your emotions, not her.

You got this.

Ok now I am a bit confused about what W wants to talk about?
I checked my email and she had just finally accepted my linkedin request (I started the job hunt in full earnest again last month).

She then texted saying we could meet tomorrow and asked if I was watching the basketball semifinals (ah I love how WW & WAW always shift the meetup dates oof)

I finally texted back saying tomorrow was fine and yes watching the games.

She texted back "OK. Great! I'll see you tomorrow" I texted to confirm time as I have buddy coming by during the day and she texted back "Yep!"

Looking back at her first text it also lead off with "Hey!"
All these exclamation points and general banter seems way more enthusiastic and friendly than any recent past text exchanges, and seems a bit too friendly to be dropping the D ax. I don't know maybe I am just being set up for the upcoming blow on the head or maybe the last 16 days of being dark are lightening her stance? Maybe she has met someone else and is now happy, that idea hurts but I am glad that she is happy.

Trying not to get too into her head and expect something but the mood just caught me off guard a bit. I know she wants to remain friends so maybe that is all she is setting up with no desire for anything more than a D and friends on the otherside booooo. Detach detach detach
Also thanks for the support crew!

What are we supposed to do with the desires for friendship?

I have read somewhere, I don't remember if it is here, that that is often an intermediary step before resuming the R. However, it also seems like it can be cake-eating from someone who has no desire to continue the R, but still wants the companionship.

Any experts who want to chime in?

I cut an pasted this from one of the threads I cannot remember where...I think it was Sandi

I would say "I'm your husband not your friend and that's how I will keep it in my heart. We can do-parenting if D happens and be cordial, but I can't be your friend, when in my heart I'm meant to be your H. Then let it be. DB, 180, and live your life. But you not about to friend zone me after, I'm your husband and all you've done to me.


She doesn't want to be your W, but she wants some level of connection with you. Not in a romantic/sexual sense, but sort of like an ownership of you. I think 98% of the cases I have read, the WW wants to maintain some type of "friendship" with the H she dumped. However, there is a vital difference in his definition of their friendship......and hers. He thinks their friendship will gradually lead back to a romantic relationship. But she is a user.....a taker.....and she will use him and take advantage, and if he tries to step back or refuse, she claim, "But you said you wanted to be friends". So, it's a no win situation.

What you can do is be civil. Perhaps there will be times you can even show a small level of friendly behavior.......the way you would toward a neighbor that you don't really care to become best buds. Know what I mean? You speak, or wave.......and keep moving.

I wouldn't give her any in depth speech about why. Just say, "Thanks, but no thanks".
I mean.........friends? seriously??

Ste7e

I am answering you on this thread after your call out on another thread. I noticed that you moved to MLC. Remember I am giving you my thoughts only, your sitch is your sitch and everything you are is for you to know.

My thinking is that your W is a walkaway, she appears to have finished the M for multiple reasons including her unhappiness in the R with you and nothing you have written indicates she is wayward. I can't see any indication of serious disorder either.

She may at some stage post S get a bf but that isn't wayward if she has filed. Thus will likely unfold in time.

You aren't wayward or disordered either. This means I don't believe MLC forum is appropriate place for you to be for those reasons.

I can't see WAW changing her mind about the old M being over and she clearly wants D. Wanting D doesn't make a W wayward, it just means finishing an R that isn't working for her. You dating or going LRT isn't wayward either if your M is in the D stage. This won't I think make WAW believe a new M is possible.

I see a great deal of a poster called Ghost in you, the confusion and fear of abandonment. Ghost is a wonderful poster who fought for his M and really struggled to accept his R was over. His W was a WAW and as far as I am aware still hasn't a bf. It is possible to want an M over and still not be wayward or disordered. Some just want a single life or to be out of the M.

Ste7e there is nothing wrong with you at all. I sense some depression and much of that is likely to be as a result of being neglected in your R. Much of that can be because you neglected you, physically and emotionally. Like many of us you ceased to take extreme care of you or so it seems. It's no wonder you are down, there are several posters including AS and LH who have said this to you in different ways.

It is my thinking that LRT isn't useful for you. Firstly it is saying I think my M is over I am living my life free of M. In LRT you live your life as if you were moving on, you clearly arent at that stage. And secondly it requires a lot of emotional health to be LRT.

So what to do?

Sandi rules are right on point for you, I would have those printed and laminated to follow if I were you. Particularly becoming a man only a fool would leave. It's a no lose strategy for you. No lose because this means looking after you in every way. It is Classic DB strategy and clearly in my view a proven way to move forward.

It can be easier if a W is wayward and crazy because it's clear how a sitch is and often eventually evaluating a way forward is clearer. It's easier to move forward and move on mentally although it is painful. Even if WAW has a bf that doesn't make her wayward from your M, it just means she is done with your R and is moving on. It would be adultery though as you are not yet D, but are S.

MLC forum has some lovely folk in it and whilst you and WAW have no disorder you are very very down and struggling. MLC is where the crazy sitches are, I don't see your sitch as crazy. Your WAW is behaving as a W who has decided to end her M and that doesn't make her crazy or wayward. It just makes her determined and her behaviour is consistent with that. Those are my thoughts at this point.

You can stand for M for as long as you want and for a new M with a much improved Ste7e. Does this mean your WAW doesn't love you or hasn't loved you? Not at all, ILYBIANILWY may describe exactly how she feels at this time. And friendship with keeping the door open and the road back smooth is great as a strategy. If it were me then I might be saying "WAW I want you as my W not as my friend and I am working to become the best me I can be for myself and any future R I have". We know That W clearly felt deeply attracted to you, she M with you.

I want to introduce you to a concept called extreme self care, looking after you and your health. Losing weight, finding work you love to do, having GAL, hobbies, interests and getting yourself together. In particular medical help for the long term depression, finding out why you think so little of yourself. Why have you been in an R where you are clearly neglected? And in this you neglected you too.

Why haven't you looked after you? Is it something from childhood? I would be interested in your ACES score. (Adverse Childhood Experiences Score). I think this goes deeper than your M and getting to look after you and putting in place self care and self regard is going to be wonderful.

I see a wonderful bright future for you and healthy R with WAW or another if you can resolve the deep reluctance to look after you. Without resolution I am concerned. This is a great place for you in newcomers as you already have your tribe here.

What kind of medical help are you having? What sort of IC? Are you going GAL?

What are your goals? We can explore those too if you like.

I am concerned more about you than your M.

Hugs

V

This change on sleep is exactly the self care change I mean. It is excellent.

V

WOW V what an answer! Thank you so much for taking the time to get involved, this is the kind of insight I have been looking for. OK so WAW is where I started my journey, but the more I read about everything else and everyones sitchs over the last few months I started to question that. I am very happy to hear that neither my WAW of myself are MLC. The more informed I am the easier it is for me to move forward. There is a lot of love from my WAW to me (and me to her) and she is on a journey of her own which I hope will give her what she needs also. Obviously I wish we could be on this journey together but that is not in the cards. And her leaving was really the kick in the butt I needed to break out of my crippling depression and start to work on myself. We are both codependents and we were unitentionally wrecking havoc on one another because neither of us were working on ourselves. I can see I created a situation where I allowed her to enable me and she was more than willing to play that role. Not a healthy sitch.
It is interesting that you also bring up neglect as that is what my new Shrink said about my life, not just this R and the neglect is both internal and external. Let me give a little more background. I am an only child my parents D when I was 14, my F was the adult child of an alcoholic and though he didn't drink was a serial cheater, he had left a family to be with my M and is on W #3 now. My M also started having A in response. I was fully aware of all of this from childhood. Both were career obsessed and extremely intelligent PHD's. There was love for me but neglect. I ended up dropping out of school at 15 and living with friends at this young age and hanging out in Bars. I was a very hip little guy. My first R was for 5 years in my early 20's, after a couple years together I found out she was extremely sexually traumatized, she ended up becoming a heroine addict and we broke up. This really effected me and I began drinking heavily for 10 years. During this time I was a womanizing/cheating badass. I hung out with the toughest manly men I could find and played in bands alot of toxic masculinity. I ended up getting sober and in doing so neutered myself. I didn't want to be the bad guy I was anymore and became completely honest and loyal with everyone. I think I went too far with and really lost the balance of a necessary swagger because I was so afraid or guilty of who I once was. I some how managed to get two degrees through all this and had a career path I was going down. After my 1st year of sobriety I got in a 3 year relationship with a serious Alcoholic. She really abused me but I was addicted to the drama and her. I met my W immediately after this traumatic relationship and never dealt with what I had gone through. My W was amazing and my life instantly became good for 5 years. Then I burned out on job and found out about all the sick relatives who all ended up dying which just shot me into a very deep depression. Which culminated in my WAW departure.
So here I am now, I am currently seeing 2 shrinks, will eventually choose one. One is dealing with more childhood regression stuff and the other is more action oriented. This is helping me tremendously. As I said before I broke out of the depression. I have been going to Yoga 4-5 days a week and I have changed my diet (no sugar, no fried foods, portion control) I have lost 40 lbs in 3 months and am very close to my goal weight. I have been diligently working on creative projects. I have started playing shows again and am meeting with new guys to play with a couple times a week. Fixed my sleeping schedule. Going to 12 step meetings for dealing with alcoholics twice a week. Been reaching out to friends and hanging out alot. Been applying for jobs daily and going for interviews. And have been doing research on maybe starting a business with a couple friends. My GAL is seriously going to the point that my days a pretty filled. I also only watch an hour of tv at night now when I used to binge for 8 hours at a time. I have tackled almost all my 180's on my list. I also have read and ordered a bunch of books recommended on this forum.
Where I am at with my WAW at this point is that by going dark I have been able to focus on myself. She definately has the power to throw me for an emotional loop still and NC has helped to insulate me. I am learning detachment but it is very unnatural for me (probably everyone). I am still hopeful that WAW and I can Rec. and if she has been working on herself as much as I have and we can continue to do so there is hope. But I also know now that we will both be ok and even happy if that never happens. And yes I am willing to just be friends despite Sandi's advice. When WAW and I have spent time together in person over the last 3 months it has been good, we really do click as people which is what initally brought us together. I understand though that she is hesitant to trust my change is real (and it is just at the beginning for me too) because she saw me at my emotional worst.

Se7e,

You are an inspiration! Keep working it. I feel like we are somehow cosmic twins somehow on parallel paths.

Much love.