Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers WW's A ended, Now piecing(?) but slow, thread #12

Thoughts on my post, above? FWIW, I don't intend on forcing anything right now. W has work to do on herself.

Only other real insight from the recording was that she found the hug from om to be very uncomfortable.

A part of me wants to find all of that somewhat hopeful, but a greater and growing part of me is very angered by it. So, what, if she hadn't felt uncomfortable by it, if there had still been a spark there, then what? She would have said so she's playing games with two different people's emotions now, mine and OMS, in some little happiness game of hers to try to see which one makes her feel better? Ick. Girl needs some help.

And if, as I suspect, her letter contains some sort of explanation like that I just outlined above where she and she said just wanted to see if there was something still there and there wasn't, and that is acceptable why? After she is supposed to be putting everything she has ever wise into rebuilding our relationship? It she still has to go and run some sort of test with om to see if there's something there? Nice.

Oh, and one final snippet I teased out of the tape: "I r was a mistake, I messed up, I shouldn't have done it."

Gee, ya think, sweetness, ya think?

W, in a text this morning: "MC has a spit tomorrow... I can take of work for the day. Maybe I can talk and you can listen if you don't want to talk."

Also three texts last night, all to the effect of "please let me know where you are and that you're okay"

She must feel the loss Jim. And you have to protect yourself. It has been a very long journey and we hope you can get the best outcome from the current situation.

Is there any chance that your W knew about the car bugging? No chance of acting a script so? We (the WW/WHs) are sometimes cold minded when it comes to self preservation.

If what you heard is true then she must fight for you. She must face reality, OM and bff actions, but she sholud feel loosing you.

Try to stay calm and get some rest alone. Take care of your sons. Be in touch with them. Take your TIME. Remember slow is fast and Stockdale paradox...protect yourself.

(((Jim)))

Are you going home tonight, or do you plan to wait until Monday night?

When you picture a man who is "done" with his WW, what do you see? You illustrated that picture very well yesterday. But like most H's, your mind is on talking and when you can sit down with her and have a discussion about everything. Frankly, I think it is too soon, but if you go home, you will be miserable until you address it.........unless you were serious about being done. In my mind, I picture a man who is really done.....not interested in saying a word or hearing anything she has to say. I can't imagine anything a woman could say to wiggle herself out of this one......but the best thing she could do is admit how wrong she was, and beg for your forgiveness. (No wonder she would not take responsibility!) She needs to admit she was wrong the last time, too. I am suspicious of a WW who could take her affair deeper underground and then compose a letter as quickly as she did.

I think Artista was hoping you would not retun to the house, if I understood correctly, to give WW a stronger message of being done.

Do you have family/friend there? Does BFF's XH (your friend) still live nearby? I know it's not something you want to impose on others, but you may have to find a temporary place.

What do you want to happen, Jim? I don't think she will.....but what if she apologizes? What do you want to do then? As I said yesterday, this needs to be a "do or die" time in the M. Otherwise, you'll go through the experience again or get divorced. So, this needs to "take".

IMHO, the only way you should even consider staying under the same roof (and this would not be designated as an in-house separation), is (1) she gives an apology with a humble spirit; (2) she has IC session, weekly, with this same counselor (until/unless I/C says less) and then have MC sessions; (3) she surrenders burner phone, and reveals any other sources/apps used to conduct her affair; (4) she sends text to OM, from burner phone, in front of you, telling him to never try to contact her again; (5) she gets a new number; (6) she deletes and blocks OM from all apps; (7) she agrees to your terms of transparency (not her terms); (8) she agrees to no more after work wine groups with the doc, or any man, in small groups; (9) if the affair was physical, she agrees to a STD test, and show you the results; (10) she ends contact with BFF.

I believe the BFF is feeding your W's wayward nature, and if she doesn't end that relationship then your M is going to continue experiencing infidelity at some level. I think you know it, too. I think the MC knows it. She may not agree, or she may choose BFF over her H......or thinks she can hide it. If so, it would require you not backing down and proceeding to the next step.

The MC might scoff at the terms above, IDK. You may think they are unrealistic. Your WW will probably make all sorts of accusations about them. It's your life, your M, and your decision to make whatever terms are necessary to help you feel safe in a MR with your W. I think the first time around you were not strict enough about transparency, b/c you said she'd never agree to it. She's not in any position to make any demands.......or give terms and conditions. Your mindset should not be about what you think she'll agree to do, but rather what you'll need to feel safe again. Otherwise, how will you be able to have hope of a trusting & loving MR? These are just my opinions, and everyone doesn't agree with them.

I am here to support you.

****************************************

Preferably, the H tells the WW that she betrayed the MR, so she needs to leave the marital bedroom, and the house. Since BFF has been consoling your W, I don't think she'll leave.......unless BFF invites her to stay with her (BFF), and then they can really party. If WW won't agree to end friendship with BFF, then you can tell her to leave the marital home and stay with her wayward buddy. It doesn't mean she will.......but you can tell her you don't want her in the marital home when she was betraying the marriage. I think it's important to call the MBR the marital bedroom, and call the house the marital home........to hone the offense. You can't force her to leave, but you don't have to tell her what you can't do (like some H's do).

*********************************

I would not do anything that might hint of domestic violence. One poster said his W called the cops b/c he yelled at his WW. They told him it was considered DV. One H was arrested b/c he was trying to throw his WW's clothes out of the MBR.....and she was screaming & throwing them back. .

I don't expect her to warmly accept your terms, but should things take a bad turn, you need to leave. It would be a bitter pill.....but it's better than going to jail.



Try to organize your thoughts and concerns. Put the Cancun trip in a mental file for next week, or whenever.

I just wanted to quickly add that I am not pushing you to go home. In fact, I think the longer you wait, the better. Neither did I mean to imply that you should walk in door laying down your terms to reconciliation. Again, the longer she isn't sure that you'll even consider R, the better.

I think everyone who has responded, agrees that she should work to get you back.

Was she saying or implying this was the first time she had seen OM since July? You just happened to catch her the first time they met in person?

She may feel it was a mistake to meet with OM, now that she was caught. Nevertheless, she was talking with him on the phone, right? She placed herself in that position. This woman is not in junior high school. She knows a married woman does not flirt and talk to other men the way she talks to men......and it not lead to meeting secretly, and possibly taking it to the next level. She just wanted to know how it felt?

So......what if you had not caught her? That's the question. How long would she have teased and played with OM to see if anything stirred? Is that what she does with the doctor and other men when she talks inappropriately to them? She's testing her feelings?

To me, this sounds more like a woman who is sorry she got caught. She wants what she can't have. I'm concerned if she can easily have you, she'll be looking for the next OM.

I think it's too soon to go home, and definitely too soon to talk with her, too soon to listen to her. And too soon for meeting with MC... Let her take the spot by herself.

She has not felt the loss. The first day is scary... She is in self-preservation mode.. not marriage preservation yet. She wants to talk to make you understand why she did what she did. She has no excuse, but she thinks she does because of her WW mentality...

Don't let her back in... It's too soon...

You told her it was important to you that she get IC... She was not committed to that... Her attitude toward it was she'll do it when she feels like it... Her setting up MC for both of you is ridiculous... Asking you to text her to let her know you are okay, please! She gave up that right... She is desperate to connect with you so she can say all the right things to put this episode away...

Now that I see what your W is doing, I can see myself back then... How silly of me to think I could smooth things over in time for the dinner party I was hosting in a few days. Little did I know, my H called each couple and told them it was cancelled... He was smart to do that... I found out a couple of days later... He was not having any of my BS...

I don't believe this was the first time they met up since July. I think she met with him that time after work when hoosjim stopped by her office and she was wearing the jewelry OM gave her, and she had the hot clothes in her bag to change into after work. And I think she met with him when she came home late from the wine hour back in February...

Whenever you, hoosjim, shared your concerns with her, she was so flippant...


You cannot tell her your terms right now. She has not earned to even have you consider what your terms would be. If she doesn't work toward that, she will do it again... I did... The first couple of times I was caught, and I smoothed things over, (one time I was kicked out of the house for 3 days, then H let me back in) I did it again...

I will keep posting as I think of things to share...