Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers DB Advice to a newbie

It's not at all unusual. Cake-eating is a favorite WAS past-time. All the crying and such, script. Don't get confused and think that's an indication that she is remorseful, she is not. She is sad, but that is not the same thing as remorseful. She knows she's hurting you and she feels bad for you, that is why she cries and hugs you and gets intimate sometimes. But she still thinks she's doing the right thing.



You don't gain or lose anything. But here's the deal, you've NEVER given her the time and space she wants. Sure you've let her go on a getaway here and there, but you've been WAY too up in her business. You have got to detach and get used to the idea of the two of you being apart for a good, long time. Whatever R you have with her is on long-term hold. Later after she's wrestled her demons to the ground then she may be interested in rekindling it, but it'll be a year or more from now.



She's not on the fence. She is both feet out the door. Nothing you do will bring her back right now, but you can do a lot (pursuit) that will drive her farther away. Detach. Get out. GAL. Work on you.

And you do have a lot to work on. Read your first post, it's full of excellent information. You have lost who you were. That alpha leader that she was attracted to originally got replaced by a beta homebody. Find yourself again. You're still in there, just come back out of your shell again.

By the way, great advice from the others but especially Amoafwl, read that post several times, it's pure gold.

I had several "Uncertain, several paths forward" discussions with the WaW, but they never, ever meant she was waffling. I was certain in the moment that they were. They were not. It meant she was feeling guilty, sad, and upset about everything, but not that she was waffling. You have to be patient. GAL and DBing does not mean ignoring your wife, or being cold or mean. Be friendly. Fix your issues. Be good for your kids and yourself. Keep the road back to you smooth. A lot of the more aggressive things are for WWs, not WaWs, where you're dealing with abuse and disrespect. If she's being respectful, you don't need to cut off contact. You DO, however, need to detatch, which means not pursuing. Pursuing every little sign of waffling just makes them re-visit the reasons they had for leaving as they need to 're justify' themselves again and again. So you're encouraging and training going back over the reasons for leaving, not encouraging them to think of the reasons for staying.

I have made this mistake MANY times. Without this board, I would have made it many more times, and be doing even worse, trying to pursue her and force her to stay.

When I am giving her space, things get easier between us. When I am pressuring her, things get more and more tense and painful for her. The road gets bumpier, not smoother.

Thank you Amoafwl



You are right, this is absolutely far from 'normal' behavior. I think I justified it in my head because I was just happy to spend any sort of time with her. Also I guess its a sort of normalcy.



Just till pretty recently, I have been consciously GAL, keeping attitude upbeat, confident and overall the guy I used to be. I think that allowing her to come over before work or whenever, it's an opportunity to show these changes. And she has recently complemented me on some new clothes, or asked where this recently found cockiness came from (not in a bad way). So yeah, I thought having her at the house for X amount of time would be a good opportunity to show her these things thru actions... I'm assuming there is a better and smarter way to do this?

^^^By the way, your "moving back into 'husband' territory" got the hamster wheel spinning again. That is very well said.^^^



Yes. I want to be available, however I do not want to be a doormat, back-up plan, or safety net. I'm not absolutely certain, but I think that since she went through with getting a place, she HAS to go out there and FAIL ON HER OWN. See that the grass isn't as green sort of thing. So I guess me 'being here' emotionally and physically, assures me that when/if she falls, we'll be able to reconnect.




I like that and it makes sense. A little has changed in the past 2 days. She had a very early doc appointment so she finally brought most of her make-up & hair stuff to the other place. So she isn't getting ready over here any more.

We had a slight argument this past week, and it was the last time she came over in the AM to see D and get ready. Long story short- She asked for my help with something online, I tried but it required a phone call and of course it was like a 30 min wait. She was getting irritated because it needed to get done, but started snapping at me. I simply and very calmly told her "Hey, you asked for my help and we tried... I don't need and won't allow the attitude" This made her more upset (a stance and reaction that rarely comes from me) but I acted like it was nothing and I wasn't bothered. So she quickly got her stuff and went to her place.

She doesn't have traditional weekend days, but this past weekend was her first time, where all the kids were over there. She only has them for about 1.5 days bc of school and work hours.



Yeah, its one of the hardest emotional things I've had to deal with. Lots of emotions on both ends come up.


I may have said something like this previously...But I am very worried that if I am not so available and all our interactions are based on something children related...Then I am just moving her more towards a D. The longer we go thru motions of divorced parents (child drop off, really no communication etc.) - the easier it will be for her to go that route.

Thank you again so much for your input, it does not fall on deaf ears, just need guidance/thoughts on how to apply it.

Jeep - Thanks for your time and more importantly, your service!!!



I agree and I'd like to this this is the correct mind set for me right now. She is extremely prideful person, and I think in her mind, she can't take the D word back. I feel like she has to go out there and fail on her own for her to truly come back.

Also with that, she said something to her mom a few weeks back like "I just need to do this for X amount of time, to see if this is what I want" (not word for word but I was told that was the gist).

And I new the butterfly but I hadn't thought of it in this case. That is great. Thank you again for your help.

AnotherStander- Thank you for your time, really. I have a dozen of your posts bookmarked and refer to some of them daily! So thanks for being a guide without knowing it.



That makes sense...as much as it can right now. In my head I know its right, but I have a hard time accepting it I guess? I know I need to, and from BD to today I am in much better shape emotionally and being okay. Without DB or your input, I would continue thinking it's her not sure of what she's doing.



You are right. I have recently been telling myself that, "she hasn't even had a chance to miss me". How do you feel about that?



This is absolutely correct. Basically it stands more of a chance if I act like the old old me. Confident, happy, secure, strong...even though I feel the exact opposite. Damn that seems hard to do.

I do know that I need an outlet. I started coaching one of my son's basketball teams and I absolutely love it. It gets me out, active and I feel actually valued. But every night when I get back in the car on the way home... my mind says "oh yeah... your family is still crumbling and there's nothing you can do about it".

Subitai,



Same for me. It is also feels incredible to have any sort of love, affection or just a good interaction.



This shines a little hope to me.



I thought that any bit of pursuing was going to be received differently from W. Here I am, making emotional changes and different approaches since starting DB. Starting to get back to the man I was initially, so maybe I would get a different/better reception from her. I hope that wasn't too confusing lol.

Thanks for your input, I need to hear stuff like this.

Heck, I thought my changes would make my appeals later in the game better and more genuine. Instead, she just had to rejustify herself yet again, and reaffirm her decision. SHE needs to change her mind, not have it changed. It's totally hard not to leap at any perceived waffling. Just try and keep the road smooth and open.

It's a long, slow, path.

One metaphor that always helped me was something like this. If you are watching grass grow or paint dry, will you really notice it changing if you are staring at it the whole time? What about if you go on vacation for 4 weeks in the summer and come back to your house? My point is that the growth is far more impactful when you have actual made and implemented lasting change vs. continuously being 'in her face' with it.

Also, I believe that such regular contact with W can stunt your growth by making your goals hazier as you react to her everyday comments, concerns, actions, compliments, etc.


But by being there, it ensures that she DOESNT have to be on her own. You are her shoulder to lean on to complain about her new environment. I think your update below that she isnt coming over so regularly will be good for you.


Im not sure you should have been the one sacrificing a half hour to do this task. But I think standing up for yourself was a good move. When you say you 'wont allow it', what exactly do you mean? You said it made her more upset so how did the conversation continue? DID you allow it?

See, to me, those words are focused on controlling her. "SHE" is the one that has to change because you say so. A better wording, I think, is to say that if she continues to act like that, then you will XXX/YYY/ZZZ....basically that you are going to leave if she keeps at that. Rather than saying what she has to do, its more about how YOU are going to respond to HER.


So whats the long term plan? Are you going to have full custody?


I think thats just your fear talking. My opinion is to make every interaction with her a showcase of your best self. But anything other than what you are describing only serves as a reminder to her of feelings she doesnt have for you right now and pushes her away.

TIME, my friend. Patience.

Amoafwl



If I see her during the day for whatever reason...I spend a decent amount of time at through out the day were I just analyze the interaction. She did this, she said that, she didn't do this, did I say something stupid etc...

So yeah, I think you are right. I'd be better off using that time thinking about GAL, or just being selfish and thinking about me and my day for once probably.

Excellent analogy by the way. I equate it to weight loss. I've had friends that I lifted with, and they would worry about how they looked every other day. But then when their family was in town once or twice a year, they would always be shocked on how different they lost...

That analogy alone is and will continue to be immensely helpful.



I previously thought, although we were having constant interactions, it was more of a good friend atmosphere. So it somewhat counted towards taking a break. I wasn't pursuing, made no compliments, I was incredibly positive etc... So I thought I was gaining good time as far as 'giving her space'.

But you're saying the above is not really true or beneficial, and I'd get more bang for my buck by just hardly seeing her at all?



*Quick background on that- So in the past, I have always been the one who is trying to defusing the situation. During my last deployment I had some really close calls getting blown up and what not, so over time unknowingly I adopted this sort of 'don't sweat the small stuff' attitude. It just really put life in perspective.

So with that, like I was saying, I wasn't lazy or not present. But baring a major incident, I took A LOT to get me upset. So if a small, normal marriage 'fight' or argument happened, I was hardly ever the 'aggressor'. I hope that made any sense

So when I said that I "wouldn't allow it", this was very different. Instead of reacting to her demeanor & attitude by defusing and like a hostage negotiator at time... I took a more aggressive but defense route. I basically said something like "You asked me to help, I tried, and it didn't work and you started getting an attitude" She said "I even made sure I wasn't being a b***h" And this is basically the tipping point. I replied with "I did notice that, thank you! However you are still making this very hostile and your 'turning down, wasn't enough" ( her tone, raised voice, posture etc). This was all said extremely calm by me.

So in the past I would have defused and deflected, this time I met it head on and told her how I thought she was acting.

As soon as I said that last bit or "turning down..." That is when she gathered her stuff and within 45 seconds she was out the door.

So with not being hostile or raising my voice, I left the conversation open to continue... However, but not at the level of attitude she was bringing.



We haven't spoke about this in almost 3 months. Even when she signed the lease, we never talked about it. She just asked if it was okay if the kids stayed here on X days and went to her place on Y days.

To be honest with you... I have no idea if I'd go for full custody. I am the full time caregiver of our 3, and have been for almost 2 years. W recognizes this as our D, clings to me and says things from time to time that are hurtful to W. She doesn't know what she's saying, she just speaks how she feels, i'm sure you can relate.

She just complimented me last night via text and said she is glad I'm her Daddy and wouldn't want anyone else to be their father. Comments like that throw me off for a bit.

But potential custody has not really been talked about, for more of a collective 20 minutes probably.

Sorry I rambled. Thank you for your reply. I check this thread like a giddy little teenager looking to soak it up. All the comments are so appreciated.