Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Chapter 5 - Turning over to a new page

Okay, I think I understand now. I don't any ideas at the moment. Have you asked her in what way does she feel punished? I mean, you wouldn't have to do it.....but at least you would know exactly what is her beef.

This still sounds to me like you are charging her an extra day for each day she wants to switch.

If she can't take the boys and so you do, then she should have a day in the bank to use at a later time, not you.

I've never heard of divorced parents handling custody in this manner. If I were her, it would seem to me like you were punishing me and also trying to erode my relationship with the boys.

Sandi2:

Thanks so much for your response. The same issue we've had for years continues to plaque us. Avoidance. Every 6 or 8 weeks this blows up (along with other things). So it becomes the pursuer - distancer game. How do we stop it? This week a few important things came up that I believe I needed to inform her about. Her input is valuable and I don't want her to feel sidelined.

1) Sick Dog - multiple trips to the vet -
2) S11 ipod is acting up. I'm considering giving him a phone
3) S11 was involved in a bullying incident.

I wrote her a note " Need to discuss" "Dog,... No response.

So I'll keep moving forward. Dog is recovering, ipod still working - no switch, I talked to the school, no real action.

How does the game get stopped?

She expressed that she is feeling punished since she has to ask me to cover for her and that she reluctantly has to "give up a day" to get my help.

How do I ask her to discuss it and problem solve. Without R talk, without pursuing and putting an end to the madness.

Rose888:

So glad to hear from you. Yes, we have worked this out on our own. So I'm sure it's unconventional. Even if I couldn't get "paid" for taking the boys when she's not avail - I still wouldn't want to switch on some random day of her choosing? Why would I want to give up time with them because W was not available the previous Saturday? How would I owe her a day? I'm baffled?

Can you explain it to me? If she wants me to cover her for a day, does she not owe me a day?

So, I'm approaching this with the view point that the goal of a good custody agreement is to ensure that each parent has equal time with the kids and that the kids have equal time with each parent.

Say the agreement states that Mom has the kids for 3 days this week and Dad has the kids for 4 days. And then next week, it's the opposite (4 with Mom, 3 with Dad).

Mom has a conflict with one of her days and calls Dad up to ask him if he can switch a day with her.

Dad can respond in one of four ways:

1. He can agree to the swap. He takes the kids on the day assigned to Mom, and Mom takes the kids on one of the days assigned to Dad for the week. Mom still gets 3 days and Dad still gets 4. This is the end.

2. He agrees to take the kids on the day assigned to Mom, but there is a reason he wants to keep the kids on all of his assigned days as well, so he agrees to trade a day from next week. So, Mom gets 2 days and Dad gets 5 this week, but next week, Mom gets 5 and Dad gets two. This is the end.

3. Dad says he can take the kids this week, but he won't give up one of his days. Dad gets 5 days this week and Mom gets 2. Next week's schedule is unchanged. This is the end. If this happens frequently, even for good reasons (like Mom's job or schooling or need to care for elderly parents), it can significantly disrupt the equal time with both parents that is the goal of the custody agreement.

4. Dad says he can't take the kids and Mom has to arrange (and pay, if needed) for someone else to watch them. This is the end.

Emotionally mature dads don't usually use options 3 and 4 unless Mom frequently requests day switching for frivolous reasons.

It sounds (and I hope I'm misunderstanding this) that you are using option 3 plus you are "charging" your wife an additional day without the kids, and you get to use that extra day at your discretion. So, not only is this week unbalanced in terms of time with the kids, but you increase the unbalance by an additional day in the future.

I have to be misunderstanding this, right?

Not really sure if you and your W have big issues in regards to time with the kids. My W and I have been pretty reasonable in regards to S14. Haven't files a parenting plan, but we did agree to Sunday to Sunday 4:00 for the switch off. But it always turns out to be Friday when he gets off from school. And the ither parently will likely drop of his clothes from their place the next day.

We don't do the owed days. The agreement among ourselves was to just be flexible with each other. My BIL and W cousin came town to visit W and SIL at their place for a day. W asked if it was alright if he stayed with her that day, even it was my week. I had no issues with it at all.

My grandmother passed away and my W kept S14 for two of my days, so he wouldn't miss out on school. Last Wednesday was my birthday, so W was cool with him leaving her place to stay with me that day. Then said to just keep him the reat of the week. It was her week and she had him since the precious Thursday which was my week. S14 will end up staying with me up until Wednesday.

Thursday she will pick him up from school and keep him for the next week. I believe there is something that she wants to do with him Thursday, so I have no issue with her taking him a day early. Now W mentioned that she wanted to take him Tuesday to go to the movies. I actually had plans tovtake him to the same movie that day. Perhaps I will just invite her to tag along with us. Still thinking about it.

But the point is just be flexible with the children if possible. I have had S14 more than W has, but I couldn't even tell by how many days since I am not keeping score. Been fortunate that my WW has been willing to reasonable with S14 as I have been.

Rose888

Thanks for your post. I appreciate the amount of time you put into the response.

Yes, using your chart - it would seem that we are using item 3. The regular requests are not because of work, or taking care of elderly parents, or her illness, etc. Things I would call unavoidable. Our Sit is W asks for "switch" so she can go to conferences, vacations and visit the OM. I would call them recreational. Yes, this is subjective.

Yes, emotional immature people would punish someone if they refused to switch change child care for someone to go to a funeral.

Rose888

Thanks for your post. I appreciate the amount of time you put into the response.

I'm not sure about the equal time thing. Our plan came from meeting/recommendations from our family therapist. Who met with all 5 of us. I'm guessing he knew what he was doing?

Yes, using your chart - it would seem that we are using item 3. The regular requests are not because of work, or taking care of elderly parents, or her illness, etc. Things I would call unavoidable. Our Sit is W asks for "switch" so she can go to conferences, vacations and visit the OM. I would call them recreational. Yes, this is subjective.

Yes, emotional immature people would punish someone if they refused to switch change child care for someone to go to a funeral.

So much of what I've read her on DB talks about don't be a doormat to your WAW/WW. I'm not sure how this situation fits. Twice this summer W did not show up because the OM was in town. Was I being a doormat? Should I have gone and dumped my S11 on her doorstep?

Why is being compensated for that situation punishing?

I can understand why the visits to the OM are hard to stomach, but I don't understand why you won't be flexible about the schedule so she can go to conferences and vacations.

Aren't you ever going to need to go to conferences or vacations? These seem like normal adjustments most people make without "charging" their co-parent. Are you typically a very rigid person?

Not showing up is definitely annoying.I'd make note of those days. If you had to pay someone to watch your son on those days, I'd charge her for that, but I wouldn't say she owed you an additional day with the boys.

Rose888

I can't thank you enough for keeping me on my toes. It's why I come here.

I've read over and over again that your WAW/WW wants an amicable split as a trophy. Want's to have the best of both worlds. It's up to me (us) to lay a strong groundwork of what we will tolerate etc to not be a door mat. I've also read, we need to treat them like ex business partners. Someone we are stuck with and we need to ensure that neither party is being "ripped off". Both parties are getting value.

When the BD happened I was so accommodating, I was walked over. I've been flexible, never has the word "Please" come into conversation. I've been instructed "I'm busy on Tues, I'll take the boys Wed.." I need to push back and so sorry, that does not work...

So am I rigid maybe - am I a sucker - nope.

Would you agree that there is a forgone opportunity cost which is not quantifiable by $ e.g. I was to have guests over one day when there was a no show. I had to tell my friend, they could not come over. That ruined his evening too. Also, if there is a no show what does that say to my sons if I dump them too? Sorry mom is a no show and I've made plans already - order pizza and play video games see you at 11. If I change my plans to accommodate her should I not be compensated?

What good is documenting? That to me sounds like a list of bad things you have done - not very attractive. I agree so is being rigid not attractive.

For the record, I've used the "days owed" for good and not evil I got to take my sons on vacation. This summer we went to Florida, last summer the Dominican Republic, we've gone on family reunions, zip lining, snow boarding, etc. All due to the days owed.

Her owed days = memorable experiences for my sons.



My sons (and d21) have benefited from the days owed system.