Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers 25yearsMLC 10 Years Later I FILE D part 6

Given that he has already dug in and is doing everything he can to screw you and will likely continue, what if you reached out to him and appealed to his "goodness" and "honor". Narcissists love to be told how great they are.

What if you said I think something is getting lost in this process with the lawyers because I am quite certain it is not your intention to leave me penniless or our D in a precarious situation with her schooling. We've been partners and had each other's backs for most of our lives so it seems very sad to me that we can't reach a civil resolution here at the end. I realize that you weren't happy with me and wanted a different kind of life and I accept that I need to make my own life going forward, but I want us to leave this marriage with dignity and I don't really feel that we are doing that right now.

This kind of speech generally works very well with my H. If I remind him what a "decent" guy he is or how we have supported each other in the past, he generally does what I want or need him to.

Perhaps your crazy H just needs to feel like he has some control back and he can choose to be a good guy.

I frankly don't see the downside of making this kind of park bench effort since he's already dug in and is screwing you about as badly as he can.

ps

Own, keep at it with me. I'm not handily rejecting your advice but I am mightily resisting it at the minute.

I hate the anger I feel. It's not motivation to me - I wish it could be the call to action some told me about in the Divorce Care group (I highly recommend those groups, btw. Very helpful and at least in my group, we are becoming friends).

I find it sickening and I think if I know h at all, he does too. Not sure how Schmoopie alleviates that (well I can imagine) but at some point it must be tiring to be with someone who "hates" their x.

Or maybe he does his goofy Narkles the Clown act and is SO HAPPY that he avoids thinking of the unpleasantness...

I'm guessing that he does both. He holds up the act as best he can, and then blurts out weird crap or vents to someone, b/c this is not what he was planning.

He had to "retire" (hide his work) ALL because of my greed!! And laziness!!

And turning the kids against him!! So, I have to find some way to approach him OR let the L's do it.

The Senior partner sounded genuinely angry at my h. I wasn't furious at the time, just sad. So my L was not reflecting back to me what he was getting from me, it was sort of strange.

Sort of good, b/c I want them to "be on my side" and I admit a part of me likes hearing how much h's lawyer dislikes h.

But I'm struck by the indiscreet way they communicate.

Alright time for meditation and bed. Thanks for taking the time, Own.

I'm on the east coast not sure where you are. Hope we meet and have margaritas some day. We can start a group of Doctor's 1st wives/kids

((( )))

25--

I'm totally fine with you rejecting my suggestions. I offer them up only as another option. As a litigator I know that creativity is essential. I have spent years now learning everything there is to know about narcissists, and I strongly believe you are using the wrong tools for this particular battle. Nevertheless, you are a smart lady and have to weigh your odds and play the hand in a way that makes you comfortable.

But, I have a hard time picturing you as some fragile creature that would have a "set back" after making a strategic move in a lawsuit. I think you finally get what a POS your STBX is. I don't see that his behavior in an expected manner is something that will set you back. I don't see you falling loving into his arms and swimming in his beautiful blue eyes (and of course I have no idea what his eye color is).

You fighting him in an arena that he is enjoying, particularly because it is your arena, plays into his ego swell. Imagine how powerful he feels at the moment defying the law and the judge's order and having no consequence for it. Imagine how powerful he feels beating his smart wife at her own game.

The only way to defeat a narcissist is to disarm them. How do you disarm a narcissist? You appeal to their weakness.

Seems like the NC is not bothering your H one iota. I'm sure it is easier on you from an emotional level, but you indicated previously that the financial situation is the biggest thing holding you back. I don't see this changing for you any time soon and despite being a year in you are not far in the case at all from what I can gather. You still have essentially no idea what the assets are and where they are at present, whether he is working or not, etc.

What does a settlement conference do for you at this point? Eventually get to an agreement that he will also violate? Pay lots of money in attorney prep and meeting time and have no agreement and press on in the litigation to get another order that he will defy? Give him the opportunity to sit there and lord it all over you?

What is going to get you the money is him being willing to pay it. Period. What is going to bring that about? It's time to get creative and stop thinking that the lawyers are going to bring him to his knees. It won't happen.

Get the money and the D, then go NC.

I live on the opposite coast from you but make trips sometimes to a certain government office in Alexandria where they specialize in one of two areas of the law recognized in the Constitution.

If you ever make it to either of the two states above where your D is pending, then I would be happy to meet up with you.

i'm less than an our from Alexandria. My first childhood home was there.

Lets plan!

Me again. The bad penny. I apologise if you felt my post was at all flippant. It was truly meant to be constructive. In reading forward, I think OwnIt is offering sage advice. Sometimes looking from the outside offers a different perspective.

What I am gleaning from your post is the emotional battle vs the intellectual one. Maybe if you viewed the legal obstacles as strictly business and tried to strip out the emotion, the answers would come. I agree with you about not wanting to lie, but what OwnIt said regarding playing to his narcissistic side....if it gets you where you want in the end and the end result is best for you and your family then that seems a good strategy.

Again, think you can find a way to word things where you don't feel like you are compromising your values but softens him maybe enough to ease the process. It's worth a try.

I also understand changing lawyers may not be right for you but can you at least see another to get a different slant? The initial appt. is usually free. It would also put any doubts you have to rest.

Regarding NC. I get that and agree it is good for your mental health and is probably easier for husband. So, being no expert and butting into your posts, I think just go into "divorce is business-- no emotion in business". I feel kind of enpowered when I deal with it that way.

I have been reading your posts for so long and find them incredibly helpful and inspiring. You have an ability to handle everything thrown at you and working things out. Know you will continue to navigate successfully.

thank you both. My d28 arrives wednesday & d20, Friday. Marathon wedding gala begins.

My place is a wreck and my kids have not see it. It's important to me that it look more together - I can imagine you guys know why.

I told myself last night and again, this morning, that I feel overwhelmed. I'm stressed. And it's not the first time this past year, that I've felt this way.

In my 20's I was a 3rd year law student married to a veterinarian (yes, my h). We were pregnant about 5 years early, I was taking a bar review course at night, classes 3 days a week and working 2 days a week. Oh, and job hunting while pregnant.

As the months passed, I was surprised to see how much more fatigued I became. My mother had 9 kids in 12 years and had so much energy. (Later she reminded me of the naps she took with Beethoven blaring out - no wonder).

H told several people "25 is taking her finals in May, having a baby in June, taking the bar exam in July and starting her new job in August." He was so proud and yet the closer to the due date I became, the more unsettled I was. I don't think I wanted to live up to all that. I kept thinking about this baby and how OUR life was going to be.

Anyhow, I could not pull it off. I failed an exam, and ended up finishing law school a semester late, at night. I knew within 5 minutes of the exam that I had not passed but I was RELIEVED. It meant I could temporarily stay at home with the baby I had fallen in love with, but had not yet met.

I just could not express before then, that at some level my body or brain was saying "this is a bad plan, I don't have to do ALL of this at once."

H told me he was impressed that I was " so resilient". In a moment of clarity he once said "I felt a little bad that so much pressure was on you." Yeah, no kidding. And he kept at it in not so subtle ways.

So in a way he's still doing it.

But your feedback helps me realize I don't have to have everything all tied up nicely.

That this IS a lot of stress and I just have to manage to do 1-2 things per day.

Can't let anxiety interfere with my effectiveness.

It's going to be a year, next month. Speaking of being hard on myself, I told my T that I thought I'd have my life more together by now.

She's a good source of rational positive feedback. And you guys are too.

I'll raise the issue of reaching out to H, with her. I don't know that NC is easier for him, but probably.

And yes, I know it's not about him. It just seems like reaching out to him, even if I lay prone on the railroad tracks, will end up hurting me more.

Per his L -- to my L -- to me (yeah I know, least discreet lawyers I've dealt with but then, for all I know I'm one of the few who STFU about clients comments)

h "hates my guts" and so, somehow I feel as if it would mean lowering my shield. Like turning the other cheek would mean getting slapped again. Hard to see it otherwise when some of his actions have not even been to his benefit, (like cancelling the life insurance I was paying for, that cost him nothing) but just to harm me.

Like I said, I'll run it by my T and I do thank you for the input

PS I'm one of 4 L's in my family and my brother - who did divorce law for some years- spoke to my lawyer and at the time he felt reassured.

I'm not opposed to asking him again!

Hang in there. You do sound very stressed and have a lot going on. Know what it is like to have visitors and wanting everything to be just so.

Mainly, I think you are sound like you are having a crisis of confidence! Not sure why. You come off as being so intelligent and kind and you got in there and solved your daughter's college issue and God knows how many other things you have navigated yourself through.

Go back to that young girl who was in law school, pregnant, and looking for a job. She sounds fearless and awesome. Remind yourself that that is you. That is still you. Get back your fearlessness and empower yourself to put on your "business" hat in "everything divorce". That doesn't mean laying down and rolling over to husband. That means getting what you want and if you have to be nice and stroke his ego, who cares. You know what the end game is. You don't have to be deceitful you just have to play the game and beat him at it. The judges have seen it all and they will see through his games. You can play the game and not lose your integrity.

Sorry to rant. Your H makes me mad and I know you are strong and deserve so much more than you are getting in this situation. You ARE smart. Trust yourself.

I so relate to that sense of being overwhelmed but feeling the need to be the superhuman one that makes everything happen. All through my life are the voices constantly saying "I don't know how you do it all." I shouldn't have tried.

Yes, take one thing at a time. It really is the only way to eat an elephant. This goes back to controlling only the things you can control.

Do you really believe your H hates you? Mine says that to me and I assume others. Then he sobs in my presence worried about whether I'll be safe. It's crap and you know it.

So what if he laughs in your face. That is a reflection of him and who he is. Don't you want to be the rational one who can make unemotional decisions for the betterment of the situation?

Breaking NC gives some momentary pain. I'm not going to lie. I always feel worse afterward. But sometimes there is business that needs to happen.

Get ready for your kids and give it some thought. Sometimes when the game isn't working you need to switch up the offense.

You don't have to do it all at once, which is a relief since you CAN'T do it all at once.

But if you clear up your place you'll feel more accomplished and have more energy to take on the harder tasks.

I have no input about contacting your H directly. I don't know if there's anything you can do to change his attitude. You don't know who's feeding the "hates your guts" attitude or why he claims to feel that way. And it's irrelevant to the BUSINESS PROCESS of divorce anyway.

I do know that my ex felt like I "fought so bitterly" for the settlement I ultimately got as a way of punishing him for how he left the marriage. That is not true at all. I need every penny of support I get from him, and then some. The kids' lifestyle and schools changed even with the generous agreement he signed, as much as I tried to preserve it. He's angry with me for wanting him to continue to provide for us even if it meant he got to shag whoever he pleases. That's his problem. My trying to "park bench" a solution would have provided him an opportunity to manipulate me, since I'm not so good at manipulating him. You're too angry to fake an appeal to his better self. It may be better to try to relax into the process and get some indication from your L of what teeth she intends to sink into the proposal that will truly bind him to act.

I have confidence in you, 25. You have worth and you are going to be OK. The thing you're most afraid of is the unknown at this point. Once things are known, you'll know how to proceed. Try to remember that.

(((((25)))))