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Tobias,

I get what your saying, but W claims she is determined to leave the MR. And if that's the case, then I ain't chasing after a woman who is chasing after someone else's H. Now I was all for patience. Especially considering that OM lives in a different state. But it seemed that I was doing all this work. And yet this guy was being referred to as Mr. So Amazing and getting poetry written and sent to him. For doing nothing, but cheating on his W by screwing mine. There is no real coversation between my W and OM. But yet my W is willing to risk it all just to be the OW.

Then you hear about how the WW doesn't respect you for being soft on these boards. And the there are talks of cake eating, which my W was definitely taking advantage of. Don't get me wrong, if W repented today, I would take her back with cwrtai conditions. But just when it seemed like W would be going in the direction of staying in the MR, suddenly her attitude towards me would change. And that's how I would know her and OM were back in comm unication. When he gone, I have a shot. But when he's around, it's as if nothing I do matters.

Her subconscious mind might be trying to keep her in the MR. But it's hard to be loving whem you are being replaced by someone who you shouldn't even be competing with, because he doesn't match what you do. So being the nice guy hasn't won me any points.

Like you mmentioned, W being nice is a good thing. It's not about me getting hurt, but when OM is the picture the level of trust in my W goes down. Because ahe make choices that she normally wouldn't. And that's not just the choice to cheat.

Tobias,

I don't know the "rules" of DB, and I think situations can vary quite a bit, but it's my belief that when cheating is involved you need to set an appropriate boundary and take decisive action. The doodler version of if goes like this:

1. Stop cheating or get out.
2. Go out and GAL and move on with life.

If the spouse wants to come back, then you deal with it when and if that happens.

There's no way it could be that simple, right?

Doodler,

At that is my logic at this point. But W won't leave the home until after the MR has officially ended. And it's hard to detach when W is literally in your face when your at the house. Me going off is not me putting on a happy face. And right now things with OM1 is just more of an obsession at this point on her part. OM1 isn't pursuing, but he ain't turning nothing down if she offers either.

W contacted OM on her trip to DC on a busoness trip in May. Not sure if they met up, aince live 2.5 hour's away. But the text and call logs indicate that W contacted him the day she found out she was going. And then when she made the hotel reservations. Then the morning she left. And then walked as soon as she arrived at the hotel. Its all circumstantial evidence. For all I know she may have been trying to get him there. But he may never have shown up. But I caught her in a lie whem she claimed to not have talked to him since April.

Potential OM2 is friendzoned, but is trying his hardest. I am half tempted to call his W to let her know what he is up. But I am going to leave that alone for now. He is clearly around, because he makes W feel good about herself.

Tread: "Then you hear about how the WW doesn't respect you for being soft on these boards."

I get that. Don't be a doormat and we shouldn't be. BUT I do think that if you never showed a soft side (not towards accepting OM but in general) that perhaps it is important to show it. I also wonder how much there is a generational difference in terms of gender roles. I think it depends a lot on how our WW view masculinity and femininity. What MOST women do seem to want is confidence and strength in our self esteem. It depends on the specific woman how much she wants the traditional meat head. Certainly, moving too far AWAY from the dominant male can be risky. But that is where I think a lot of the problems in our sitch come from lack of communication. For example, my W never wanted a guy that just takes her whenever he wants but she does like it when I initiate at a random moments and that I tell her what I want to do to her. I very rarely showed that side (part of it is because she is a sexual assault survivor). My W. likes to fix things in the house and was more upset that I said I would fix it and then never did it and didn't recognize I lacked the skills. She can be lying to me about that but I don't think so. Again, YMMV.

In your case it sounds like the LRT is your best shot. My W has been dismissive about OM's potential to be a BF. Good sex? yes. Having an emotional connection? Yes (my W says she cannot just have sex which makes her now say he is a friend...). So maybe THAT has been a blessing in my sitch that the PA never had a chance to fully develop (thank GOD for OM's horrible work hours). If my W was doing that OPENLY like yours has been doing I would have asked her to leave and said: don't worry I will be fair to you but this is over. Instead I see a W who is doing things that she contributed to our MR to deteriorate and improve on them. And when there is a setback SHE seems to get back to the plan (I sometimes wonder if she is on here because she is applying the advice). Worst case scenario: she is cake eating and wants to just have a peaceful end to things. Given that she is afraid I am not too upset about that scenario. Best case scenario: she sees consistent changes and very little meltdowns and wants to be in this MR again. But she has a lot to work on herself. But all of this is based on me recognizing what I contributed to our marital problems. I was controlling. I was passive. I didn't show self esteem. I didn't come through on promises. I didn't make her feel desired. So my 180s directly connect to that.

Doodler: "There's no way it could be that simple, right?"

I think there is plenty of ammo on this board that tells you it is NOT that simple. I think #1 is easy for those of us who are ready to call it quits. Or at least willing to lose the relationship. Some sitch got resolved with a separation, others stayed in the same house. There is no one-size-fits-all. Some people do EXACTLY what they are being advised to do and succeed, others succeed by finding themselves and moving on. Others do exactly what needs to happen and there is no success.

I think #2 is the better advice except for "move on with life".

What were the reasons for the EA and PA to develop?
What were the things each of us need to improve on?
(Before that: are we ready to forgive the A and are we willing to go on a marathon to see if we can get to the finish line and start a happier MR. Some of us carry more resentment.)

Those answers I think offer us the best insight.

At the end of the day: GAL to me means: work on yourself, have fun, take space and time. But depending on what got you there: address those issues. I think it's Bulldog's post in Sandi's rules that also confirms some of this. And with active involvement in MC and applying the tools and resources. And a lot of validation from her part. All of that is different from what Tread seems to experience EXCEPT for her doing something nice to him. Which is how my W started shifting from cold and mean to more warm.

Tread,

Happy faces that mask unhappy people are never convincing. Sometimes it's appropriate to be p1ssed; there's nothing wrong with being angry and expressing your anger appropriately. When you step up and start taking care of business you'll be a lot happier.

I couldn't detach while W was under the same roof. This was something I came here and discussed at length, and the short version is that most of the advice here was that it was OK to instead "show her what she's going to miss". My W wasn't actively involved in a PA though, so that does change the dynamic.

I'm sure you've read TXHubby's thread but he and his W were under the same roof after BD (and she was actively having an A) and at first he tried to show her what she would miss and it just didn't have any impact on her. It wasn't until he said "that's it, no more Mister Doormat" that things started to change. I think if you read Sandi's posts you'll get that same message, that as long as we try to placate the WW that we're just going to get run over but if we take a hard line and refuse to accept the cake-eating that it's then that they get the wake-up call. I'm not saying what you're doing is wrong, but I think you're on the same path as TXHubby. At some point you're going to get tired of the BS, read your W the riot act and well and truly detach. It's not something you can fake, but you WILL reach your limit and when you do, the time will be right for detaching.

I think that there maybe some confusion. W hasn't had a PA with OM since late November, which was a couple of times on a cruise ship. And probably one other time when we were visiting family in town. The two has planned to continue to sneak and see each other. But that is when I quickly caught onto the A. Which was two weeks after it first started. From that point, it has turned into an EA/obsession on my W part.

Now they may have met up on May one time, while she was on business for a day trip. But I no real confirmation on any PA there . So I can't Call this an active PA. Even though she might be reminiscing on the PA part by listening to certain songs on cheating and looking at cruise photos.

Tread,

I did everything wrong and came here looking for advice. Two awesome pieces of advice I got here that really helped my situation was to firmly and confidently say:

I will not be in a theee way relationship.

I want to be your H not your friend.

Best wishes.

Tobias,

Must've little confused about what you mentioned. I understand that W unafraid to give the MR another try. So are you implying that OM is a plan B that she is keeping around. An issue in a MR was that W felt O wasn't give her enough attention. Which is difficult because the rules say that I should give W space. This contradicts the 180 I need to do in giving W more attention. So I only have so much attention, since Db'ing. And backed off when I felt she didn't want me around.

When I decided to detach, she heavily started to pursue OM for that attention. So my question is did detaching make things worse in my sitch? Do I guve her that attention, while semi-detaching?

Only give her that attention if you're less than 30% detached.