I'm very sorry for the situation you're in -- the same thing happened to me at about the same time, although I had been married longer.
Most men in your situation are *very* surprised by what has happened and seek to solve it like a math problem. If you can understand what you did wrong, you can fix whatever it is and put things right again. We like to think that things are logical and linear, if I do "A" then I get "B", but unfortunately these situations are so complicated and nuanced, there is no simple thing you're going to figure out that's going to turn things around.
The first thing to think about is to surrender to the fact that there is no easy fix. For people who are used to solving problems, that's not trivial.
The second thing to think about is that there is pretty much nothing you can do to make your wife *feel* the way you want her to feel. She can't even control how she feels about things. What you should take solace in is that she didn't used to feel about you the way she does now, so that proves that feelings can change. Just as you can't point to one single thing that changed her present feelings, you can't do a few simple things that will change things in your favor either, it's much more subtle.
Third, realize what's going on with you. Chances are that if your wife was very unhappy with you, you weren't super happy with her either. When one person leaves, or blows up the relationship, the other person is typically completely stunned and feels totally out of control. Your own complaint list tends to go out the window and you will suddenly feel "in love" again and put your wayward spouse on a pedestal.
Why is that? Why is she suddenly so much more attractive as a partner than she was a month ago? If anything she's treating you worse, not better. The reason is that losing your stability in the relationship is completely threatening and destabilizing. You're not used to living outside of the relationship. Therefore, your brain is going to try to convince you that the fastest way to regain your control over your life is to get her back as fast as possible and at virtually any cost.
This kicks off a cycle of "pursuing" where you (1) try to reverse everything you've ever done that your spouse has complained about, (2) try to beg, plead, convince, etc. to get your spouse to give you another chance, (3) write letters, send e-mails, buy gifts, etc. to "prove" how much you love them.
Despite the fact that this never works, and in fact makes things worse, your brain will refuse to accept that your efforts are making things worse, and you'll keep trying to convince yourself that you're just not doing enough, so you'll try again and again and make things worse and worse, digging the hole deeper and deeper.
This situation plays itself out over and over and over on these boards.
You said in your post that you two never had major fights, and your wife never gave you an ultimatum like "Look! If you don't change your ways I'm leaving!"
That is also very common. There's a lot of incentive to keep the peace when you live with someone, and most people error on the side of letting things pass while building up silent resentment instead of blowing something up into an argument. If your wife gave you an ultimatum like that you might say "I'm not changing my ways, go ahead and leave" and then she becomes the left behind spouse, has no leverage in the relationship, and has to fend for herself. People have a huge amount of fear in that regard, and therefore they almost never bring things to a head until they are already past the point of no return and no longer care if you don't respond to their ultimatum. At that point, it's no longer worth making the ultimatum so they just find an emotional friend, or an affair partner, or walk out the door.
The bottom line there is that as the "left behind spouse" things are much worse than you realize, and have been for longer than you understand. Therefore, turning things around will also take much longer than you can currently appreciate.
Right now your wife resents you -- she resents you for things you did in the marriage both real and imagined, things you didn't do in the marriage both real and imagined, and resents you for making her be the "bad guy" by blowing things up. She also resents you for making her feel guilty about the emotional friendship she's developed with this other man. You're the lightning rod for her resentment.
Each move you make now needs to be measured against that yardstick -- will this make her resent me more, or less? If you make her feel guilty, she's going to resent you. If you make her responsible for your feelings, she's going to resent you. It's a very slippery slope you're on.
Therefore, the very best thing you can do right now is sign up for the telephone coaching on this site and give your wife space. She's asking for space, by denying her that request, you're telling her that you don't care what she wants and your needs are more important. How is that going to make her feel?
It's crazy, crazy counter-intuitive, but the fastest way to get her back is to give her more space than she's asking for. The shortest path back together is for you to move in a straight line in the opposite direction. Distance makes the heart grow fonder was never more true than it is now.
Your brain will reject this with fury! Most people are not successful at giving their spouse space and "dropping the rope". Most people cling to their spouses leg and will not let go.
It takes an incredible amount of discipline. It's like weight loss, everyone understands that to lose weight you have to burn more calories than you consume, that's a simple concept, yet very few have the discipline to actually deny themselves of what they want to do in the moment.
Are you up for the challenge?
Acc
Acc, Thank you for your reply and insight. I appreciate that you took the time to reply to my situation and provide such a detailed response. I accept that patience on my part is vital and that I need to give her space. However, I'm struggling with how much I should back off. I'm not doing the obvious pursuing things such as texting, calling, talking about our marriage, etc. I'm civil toward her and we only really talk when my son is around. On the few moments when we're alone I try not to talk first. When we do talk I keep the conversation about work. One thing that I continue to do is make her tea in the morning, which I've been doing since we dated and she's thanked me on a few occasions. So, when you say I need to give her even more space, what exactly does that entail? Ignoring her full stop? Stop making her tea in the morning? I've been advised to practice "quiet acts of kindness". Meaning, I should just be civil and nice and do things like continue to make her tea, help out with the laundry, cook, etc. Please advise. I look forward to your response. By the way, I ordered DB, but it hasn't arrived yet.
Teppo
Married 9, Together 13, Divorce in Progress M: 44, W: 44, S: 7 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/19/17
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Teppo I agree with Cadet, although rather than using a "stranger you met on the street" I recommend a friendly co-worker standard. With a friendly coworker you don't know that well you would be polite, but you wouldn't go out of your way to do favors, you wouldn't share anything personal, and your mood certainly wouldn't be impacted by things they said or did.
Often we get caught up on what we should and shouldn't be doing, but the important thing is not the what, but the how, or what your demeanor is like.
You need to "open the cage door" as it were, and what that means is that you need to completely let her off the hook in terms of influencing your feelings.
If she knows that you are "okay" no matter what she does, then she is free to deal with her own feelings and work things out for herself.
If she's constantly aware that her actions and her decisions are making you sad/angsty/mad/etc. then she will wear that feeling like a yoke of oppression and her main focus will be getting away from it.
Regarding your tea question, here's the nuance. If you make her tea and then sit there staring at her with puppy dog eyes waiting for a pat on the head, that would be a fail because you're making her responsible for your emotions. If you give her some tea while making some for yourself, and everything about your demeanor says that you don't care if she drinks it, pours it down the drain, leaves it on the table, or runs naked through town balancing it on her head, then it's okay to do.
To add some levity as Damone said in "Fast Times at Ridgemont High" you need to have "The Attitude". The attitude says that you don't care if she comes, stays, lays or prays, whatever happens your toes are still tapping.
So whether you do any particular thing really doesn't matter. You could do her tons of favors with an attitude that clearly says you don't care if she appreciates it or not because either way you're fine, or you could do her no favors, not talk to her at all, but mope around in her presence crying all the time.
The key here is to take the weight of *your* feelings off her shoulders and bear that burden 100% yourself. The DB prescription for that is to "GAL" or go out and "Get a Life" which allows you to regain self esteem and confidence through interactions with people other than your wife.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Ok, here's a question for you all. My wife and I will be seeing our deacon on Saturday and this is were she's going to give me all the reasons for wanting a divorce. How should I handle this? I read about validating her hurt and feelings, but is there anything in particular I should do? I may not agree with everything she says, but I want her to know that I'm truly sorry for what I've done and that I hope she gives us a second chance. I don't want to beg and get emotional, but I'm afraid I and drive her further away. What should I do?
Last edited by Cadet; 07/19/1706:16 PM.
Married 9, Together 13, Divorce in Progress M: 44, W: 44, S: 7 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/19/17
I would say your best bet is to validate -- validating doesn't mean you agree, only that you hear her. If you can repeat what she's saying back to her in your own language that can be a very effective way to let her know that you hear her. 85% of the time people want you to hear them more than they want you to agree with them.
Is this her idea to see the deacon? Why are you doing it? The other thing to think about is that if you don't think its going to be beneficial you can refuse to participate.
Often we attach too much significance to each and every move when our marriage is in crisis, as if each thing we do or say may irrevocably change things for the worse. The reality is that this is a long process, and you have more freedom to chart your course than it may feel like.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
One other bit of advice: often she will use definitive language, like "you never help around the house". It will be tempting to refute that and give examples of all the things you actually do around the house.
Instead, you can say "I understand you feel like I never help around the house"
In that case, you're not arguing, but you're also not agreeing, you're just acknowledging that her feelings are her feelings.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
I would say your best bet is to validate -- validating doesn't mean you agree, only that you hear her. If you can repeat what she's saying back to her in your own language that can be a very effective way to let her know that you hear her. 85% of the time people want you to hear them more than they want you to agree with them.
Is this her idea to see the deacon? Why are you doing it? The other thing to think about is that if you don't think its going to be beneficial you can refuse to participate.
Often we attach too much significance to each and every move when our marriage is in crisis, as if each thing we do or say may irrevocably change things for the worse. The reality is that this is a long process, and you have more freedom to chart your course than it may feel like.
Acc
Acc,
This was our decision to meet with the Deacon. With respect to validation. There are definitely some things on her list that I'm guilty of. Should I just flat out say "I agree, I have a problem with my moodiness and anger. I understand that this has caused you hurt and I'm sorry". Is saying sorry or acknowledging things that I know I'm guilty of OK?
Married 9, Together 13, Divorce in Progress M: 44, W: 44, S: 7 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/19/17
This was our decision to meet with the Deacon. With respect to validation. There are definitely some things on her list that I'm guilty of. Should I just flat out say "I agree, I have a problem with my moodiness and anger. I understand that this has caused you hurt and I'm sorry". Is saying sorry or acknowledging things that I know I'm guilty of OK?
Taking ownership and apologizing is always a good thing. I heard a speaker recently talking about apologies. She said that a real apology is taking ownership of what you did wrong and apologizing for it. She said that too often, people say "yes I did that, but that's because you..." or "yeah but you also ..." which completely erases the apology. For it to in fact be an apology it has to be 100% about you full stop.
The only guidance I would give you is that if she reads out a list of 10 things and you acknowledge and apologize for four of them she may feel you don't agree with the other six and you don't want to get into that.
I would probably validate during the conversation, and at the end make a summarizing apology for the things you'd like to own and apologize for.
Obviously the elephant in the room is that if she stays with you, what's going to be different? That's very shaky ground and my advice to you is that words are next to useless, so you're much better off demonstrating changes with your actions versus making promises during the session with the deacon. You can say "I acknowledge that some of my behaviors have been a problem both for me and for us, and I'm committed to changing them for my own benefit. I could make all kinds of promises but I'd rather demonstrate changes with action"
I haven't commented on this before with you but anger is a real problem because it's roots tend to run so deep. I don't think that's something you can just expect to "fix", and that's probably your wife's fear.
I think the challenge instead is to look at the specific behaviors that arise from the anger, and look at how you might be able to change those reactions -- i.e. the anger is going to be there, but the reaction to the anger can be different.
A good "Anger Management" course may be the best investment you ever make in yourself.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Thanks again, Acc. What about showing emotion on my part? I tend to get misty eyed during these types of talks. Will that just make me look weak? I genuinely what to work things out and I can see myself crying and pleading with her to give our family another chance.
Married 9, Together 13, Divorce in Progress M: 44, W: 44, S: 7 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/19/17
