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Wish

Google Corey Wayne and watch his videos.

Ive spent some time ruminating on your practice of 'checking in' and taking a measure of her happiness regularly. Im not sure how I feel about it.

On the one hand, I do agree that it's important to have some types of regular communication about the status of the relationship. To make sure that theres no major issues, just like going to an annual doctor's checkup.

On the other hand, it feels to me, like you are acting very passively doing this. Almost like you need her to be your mother in telling you what you need to do. It's especially concerning if you have these discussions but dont take action based on the feedback. Im sure these discussions will become tedious and annoying to her if you dont do anything afterwards. Ultimately, I dont blame her for just saying 'fine' after a few times of missed expectations.


In any case, Im not sure any of it is the point. For now, Id keep focusing on what you can do to rebuild (build?) some self worth. Keep up the GAL.

Well, she wanted, for example, to go out more often, be around people, have couple friends. I was more interested in staying home. I had hobbies that I was extremely interested in, but they weren't worth more than my marriage. That's why I needed​ to understand how important the things she was asking me for were to her. And I didn't understand. You understand the mind of a woman, since you are one. So, it's clear to you that when a woman keeps asking for something, it could be a deal breaker for her, but I didn't get it, and I had very little relationship experience before her. Another example was that she wanted me to stop sleeping in the other bedroom during the week. I was only doing that because I was having trouble going back to sleep in the morning after getting woken up. Doing this sure as hell wasn't worth losing my marriage over, but I just didn't get how important this was to her, because I explained to her that it had nothing to do with rejecting her, and everything to do with sleeping better, and I thought she understood this. But she didn't, apparently.

It's just the saddest thing in the world, because I feel like she left me over a misunderstanding that I didn't love her, and over a desire to be with someone who did. But I did, and do, tremendously love her. It's tragic -- two people that really love each other breaking up because of a confusion on both sides. But she has flipped that switch, that I guess all women have in their brains, that allows them to go from tremendous love to tremendous hate, almost overnight. And now what can I do?

Women shouldn't hint around at stuff. If you need something in order to stay in the relationship, explicitly tell the guy that you have to have it, unless you just don't care whether the relationship survives, I guess.


I didn't just give her things that were requirements. I gave her a lot of things. For instance, she almost always got to eat wherever she wanted to eat. She didn't require that to stay in the marriage. I did it partly because I wanted her to be happy and partly because it didn't matter much to me. Everything I chose to do or not do was weighed in my mind: "how much does she want/need this?" versus "how much do I not want to do it?" Obviously, if it was something I also wanted​ to do, then it was not an issue, but if I didn't really want to do it, then I needed​ to know how important it was to her. And really important things she would never come right out and say how much they mattered to her. The only thing I can recall her ever saying that she had to have to be in a relationship with me was that I not be on any psychotropic medication. That was during our first year of dating. That ultimatum dramatically improved my life. For some reason, she would never give any more ultimatums. She would just complain about things. Act content/happy whether she got them or not. And then eventually left me all of a sudden for a guy at work. And very soon after leaving me, started having absolutely nothing to do with me.


That's completely wrong, because I'm now willing to give her all the things she ever asked for. But you know why? Because as soon as she said "I'm not sure I want to be with you anymore" (BD), I finally understood how much she needed the things that I had been resistant about. I should have been asking her how important the things were to her, but I had no idea she would ever do anything like this. I was relying on her to tell me if she was nearing the end of her rope. In actuality, her leaving me didn't even hardly cross my mind. I couldn't imagine her leaving, and I couldn't imagine me leaving her. All I needed to know was how important these things were to her, but she would never just come right out and say it.

A warning is only effective as a warning if the person or organism perceives it as a warning. Warm bear poop would be a very strong warning in areas where grisly bears live, but only to someone that would recognize it as bear poop and realize that large bears are in the area. I have to be picking up what she's dropping down. And in matters as serious as keeping a marriage together, things should be very explicit. The survival of the marriage shouldn't rely on me getting hints or making inferences, that maybe only a woman, experienced/knowledgeable man, or psychologist would know to make.

I appreciate your perspective on this, Ginger. Please don't take what I've said as slamming you. I'm just explaining my perspective. I think it was much more the case that I didn't understand, more than it was the case that I was selfish. I was certainly a clueless husband, but not a selfish, a--hole husband.

Thanks for the tips, Jim. I have Microsoft Flight Simulator X. Have you tried X-Plane 11? Looks like X-Plane may have surpassed the 2006 FSX.

I think you improved very quickly, giftd, but I'm not sure how much I have improved.

I will do that. Thanks, LH.

I'm not sure my relationship with my wife would have lasted another year, after the first year, had I not done the "checking in". I couldn't read her. The first year she pulled back from me all of a sudden like she was dumping me. Never told me she was unhappy with anything. Just completely blindsided me. That's why I started asking her periodically how happy she was. I couldn't tell, otherwise, due to her faking it until you make it and not giving me the full story on her needs. She showed me once that she would just ship out without a word. So, I didn't want to be blindsided again.


Well, I guess I need to look into better ways of doing it. A better way might be to ask her how much she needs things that she is asking me for. But that relies on her actually telling me she needs something, rather than just checking out without saying anything, which is what she started to do to me that first year. I don't remember her complaining about anything before she distanced herself. I think she probably did complain some. I think I remember one thing she was mad about and made it known, but it didn't seem like it was a deal breaker for her. But I found out later that it kind of was. She just didn't let me know that until later.


Oh, back when I still "checked in", I would definitely work to improve things if improvement was needed. I asked her because I wanted to know. I didn't want to be blindsided again.


I partially agree, but I do need to know how to be more successful in future relationships. I never want a repeat of this downfall; that's for sure. If a marriage is to end, it should be mutual. It should never be a surprise to either person. If I have to be in another relationship that ends by choice, I definitely don't want it to end like this did.

Wish, I am trying to formulate a way to help you understand what I am saying. I would 25's post ot you which she responds to your explanations to me. There is lots of value in that.

You keep saying she needs to tell you, in addition to what she needs, how much she needs it. ALl you need to know is that if she is telling you that she does in fact need it. I would feel awful if someone would only want to fulfill my needs because I would leave them if they don't. I would hope I wouldn't have to quantify how much and define what the consequences are if they didn't do it.

Your wife told you that you sleeping in the other room makes her feel bad. She was very direct with you, and while you like to women only understand these things because they at women, she was actually way more direct than most women.

You let her chose where to eat because YOU didn't care where you ate. So she gets what she needs only when it doesn't matter to you? What if you did care where you ate? Then you don't make the sacrifice?

If it something you really can't provide for her, you don't only provide it because you will lose the M. You discuss it and come up with a compromise. Express why you can't make that sacrifice. Maybe a solution to the sleep problem would be to sleep in the bedroom x amount of times a week. maybe those few days are more difficult to sleep, but your W expressed very clearly it is important for her to sleep in the same bed with her husband.

I hope you see what I am saying. She didn't blindside you, although I am not minimizing that you did feel blindsided. And no, all women can not just shut off feelings like a light switch. I certainly can't. And those WAW I know didn't. It was years of them saying what they needed, their husbands not doing anything about it, and they protected themselves by detaching because they felt so hopeless. Her A is not right by any means. But your W has been crying out for a while now, but because she didn't threaten to leave, you thought it wasn't serious when she expressed what she needed.

You said you have a desire to improve upon this in future relationships and that's what I am trying to help with. You don't only take action on something expressed to you because they didn't tell you how badly they needed it. If someone tells you they need something, they need something. So no need to ask going forward how badly they need it. Just communicate and see if you can compromise if it something really difficult for you to provide.

I've learned that I can't rely on a woman to explicitly tell me how important things are to them. When they complain about anything, I need to find out for myself how important it is, and assume everything is super important until I can safely determine otherwise. If it's a deal breaker, it's very important that I know!


I didn't know how much she needed those things. That's the fact of the matter. I was a clueless husband. I had very little relationship experience before her, and it's now a wonder to me that she stayed with me for ten years.


LOL. No. All she'd need to do is tell me she has to have it in her life, whatever it is she is asking for.


That she wants something to change. But it's important to know how much she wants it, when determining whether I want to give it. I mean, the only alternative to that, is for me to just give her everything she wants, right? Who knows? Maybe she would have been very happy and attracted to a "yes" man, but I don't think most women are.


It would let me know how important those things are to her. Even our marriage counselor (that she agreed to one session with) told us that it's very important to know how much things matter to our spouses.


Heh. Come on. You must think I was the biggest jerk husband. It wasn't about not changing because she would put up with not changing. It was about her acting happy all of the time (when she wasn't stopping to complain for a moment), regardless of what I did or didn't do. I wasn't very motivated to make her happier when she already seemed happy. I can't believe this seems like such a foreign concept to some people. Well, they do say that men and women seem like they come from different planets..


Yep. That is the unfortunate truth, probably. She said all the times she complained were my second chances. Unfortunately, I didn't realize how important those things were to her, and that our marriage was in danger. I thought those things were much less important to her than they actually were. It is what it is. All I can do is learn from it. But maybe it shouldn't be all about the man understanding the female brain, but also should be about the female understanding the male brain. It's a two-way street. Women give up, and blame the man who didn't understand her needs, and everyone looks at the man and says, "Why didn't you get it?" Well, why didn't the woman understand how the man thinks, and communicate to him her needs, differently, in a way he better understood -- or explain to him how to better understand her?


It is one of very many lessons that I am taking from this situation. It's a lesson I learned before, and worked very well for me for a long time, but a lesson that I had forgotten, because I had gotten too comfortable and thought everything was fine.