Depending on how things go, the plan is to go out for a drink after. I don't plan to continue the R conversation over drinks but will strive to keep things light and fun. It's been a while since we've had any fun together...
I kind of doubt either of you will feel like having fun together, immediately following MC.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Haven't posted all weekend so this thread is likely at on page 6 or 7 in the forum! Time to bump it!
So sandi2 was right (well, sort of). The MC session was not fun. I mostly sat back and listened since my position on the situation really hasn't wavered. This forced my wife to open up and reveal a few things that I didn't really know. Here's a summary:
1. Despite how cordial and friendly we are with each other these days she still feels like the marriage is strained. That we're basically just roommates.
2. She is conflicted because she doesn't like this feeling of our marriage being strained. She knows that she asked me to give her space and I am complying, but she's unhappy with the distance that her request creates between us. In other words, she wants two different things at the same time.
3. She is genuinely unhappy. Not just with me, but with life. And although she is a great mom, this unhappiness includes our kids. She feels like she's being held back. She's bored. She has aspirations for starting a new business but knows that there's just no time in our lives right now. So she often reverts to "auto pilot" to get through the day. (btw, she must be REALLY good at this auto pilot thing because I could list at least 10 times in the past week when she seemed genuinely happy in my presence and in the presence of our kids.)
4. She recognizes that she tends to take an "all or nothing" approach to everything. And if she wants to find happiness in her current situation, she has to figure out how to find a happy medium between extremes that she can live with.
5. She IS paying attention to all of the changes I've made in the last few weeks (a combination of GaL, 180, and "manning-up" ...refer to the previous 8 pages of this thread). She vocalized that she is appreciative and impressed.
So after all that we were both pretty drained. But it's amazing how easily you can change your mood when you already have a sitter in place and don't want to go home. So I said, "Well look, we're both hungry and we could probably both use a drink. I could drop you off at one place and go to another place, but how about we just go together instead." This lightened the mood immediately and we ended up at a bar having a couple cocktails and some comfort food. We didn't talk about the MC session, but instead tried some "fund to ponder" type questions like, "What would you do tomorrow if you had no responsibilities for 24 hours?" or "If you could switch careers tomorrow what would you do?" All in all, the evening ended on a better note than it started on.
The rest of the weekend was pretty normal. I took the kids to church again, and again my W decided not to come. I didn't argue at all. I'll just try again next week.
So that's me on a Monday morning everybody. Still working the plan and trying to stay motivated and positive.
Feedback is always appreciated.
M46 W48 M11 T14 S11 D8 BD: 2016/05/27 In-home separation: 2016/11/23 Nesting: 2017/06/11 W moves out: 2018/01/07 W goes public with OM: 2018/07/12 I ask for a divorce: 2018/12/14
Chris, sounds like you're doing pretty well overall, great to read about! Glad you got to learn a little bit more about where your W is in all of this. It might not always be easy to hear that stuff, but at least you have some sort of intell.
Keep up the good work and of course keep us posted!
Me: 35 W: 32 MR: 2y T: 3.5y SS11 BD: 11/3/16 EA: 10/26/16 PA: 11/11/16 W asks for S/D & ILYBINILWY 11/13/16 Status: I moved out 11/19/16, GAL I filed for D: 12/14/16 D-day: 3/10/17
Haven't posted all weekend so this thread is likely at on page 6 or 7 in the forum! Time to bump it!
So sandi2 was right (well, sort of). The MC session was not fun. I mostly sat back and listened since my position on the situation really hasn't wavered. This forced my wife to open up and reveal a few things that I didn't really know. Here's a summary:
1. Despite how cordial and friendly we are with each other these days she still feels like the marriage is strained. That we're basically just roommates.
2. She is conflicted because she doesn't like this feeling of our marriage being strained. She knows that she asked me to give her space and I am complying, but she's unhappy with the distance that her request creates between us. In other words, she wants two different things at the same time.
3. She is genuinely unhappy. Not just with me, but with life. And although she is a great mom, this unhappiness includes our kids. She feels like she's being held back. She's bored. She has aspirations for starting a new business but knows that there's just no time in our lives right now. So she often reverts to "auto pilot" to get through the day. (btw, she must be REALLY good at this auto pilot thing because I could list at least 10 times in the past week when she seemed genuinely happy in my presence and in the presence of our kids.)
4. She recognizes that she tends to take an "all or nothing" approach to everything. And if she wants to find happiness in her current situation, she has to figure out how to find a happy medium between extremes that she can live with.
5. She IS paying attention to all of the changes I've made in the last few weeks (a combination of GaL, 180, and "manning-up" ...refer to the previous 8 pages of this thread). She vocalized that she is appreciative and impressed.
So after all that we were both pretty drained. But it's amazing how easily you can change your mood when you already have a sitter in place and don't want to go home. So I said, "Well look, we're both hungry and we could probably both use a drink. I could drop you off at one place and go to another place, but how about we just go together instead." This lightened the mood immediately and we ended up at a bar having a couple cocktails and some comfort food. We didn't talk about the MC session, but instead tried some "fund to ponder" type questions like, "What would you do tomorrow if you had no responsibilities for 24 hours?" or "If you could switch careers tomorrow what would you do?" All in all, the evening ended on a better note than it started on.
The rest of the weekend was pretty normal. I took the kids to church again, and again my W decided not to come. I didn't argue at all. I'll just try again next week.
So that's me on a Monday morning everybody. Still working the plan and trying to stay motivated and positive.
Feedback is always appreciated.
Her responses in MC tells me she needs IC. Life isn't perfect. Well, no sh*t. Nobody's life is perfect. She's saying all the things a spouse says before they bolt. She's not unhappy with you, the kids, the marriage....she's unhappy with herself. She's unhappy that all of you are not making her happy with herself. She needs IC before she ruins the best part of her life just because she's unsure about who she is.
Thanks fightin'. It has been hard and I have to admit that I was a bit depressed about the whole thing after we finally got home from our date. But I dealt with it and put my best face forward in the morning.
TxHubby, she's been having weekly IC sessions since June. She has a LOT to work through including a very traumatic childhood. Frankly all of my neediness and pursuit in the first few months since the BD did not help facilitate any of her progress. But I'm doing things different now. Primarily moving on with my own life regardless of where she's at. Hopefully this will help her focus more on figuring out what she wants...
M46 W48 M11 T14 S11 D8 BD: 2016/05/27 In-home separation: 2016/11/23 Nesting: 2017/06/11 W moves out: 2018/01/07 W goes public with OM: 2018/07/12 I ask for a divorce: 2018/12/14
3. She is genuinely unhappy. Not just with me, but with life. And although she is a great mom, this unhappiness includes our kids. She feels like she's being held back. She's bored. She has aspirations for starting a new business but knows that there's just no time in our lives right now. So she often reverts to "auto pilot" to get through the day. (btw, she must be REALLY good at this auto pilot thing because I could list at least 10 times in the past week when she seemed genuinely happy in my presence and in the presence of our kids.)
Do you see the selfishness? A WW thinks only of herself. Having kids held her back? Too bad, b/c there is no return department when you bring new lives into the world. However, her mindset is so twisted that she doesn't even know what would make her happy! All she currently sees is that you and the kids aren't doing it for her, and she is all about finding what/who makes her feel good.
Your W is in rebellion. This is probably the most hurtful stage for the family of a WW, b/c of her hostility and bitter attitude. She will lash out at her H more than anyone else, directly or indirectly. There is little you can do about what she chooses, but you also have choices. Counseling requires talking about the MR, and a WW is going to blast away the H/M in the sessions. The more anyone tries to persuade her to work on the MR, the more she will resist. My stand on MC is that it won't work while she has a wayward heart. You are too vulnerable and needy to be revealing anything in a couple's session. You have to stop chasing her! That is the first step.
My suggestion to you is to stop trying to persuade her. Instead of "showing" her how much you want to work to save the M, step back and release that emotional rope you have tied to her. H's have fear of letting go, and yet, I would say this action is probably the most effective with a WW. Your ideas of what it will take for her to stay in the M........does not work. You have to apply the information you learn here. So, do youself a favor and turn lose. (btw, do not tell her what you are doing).
A H may think, "But won't that just push her farther away"? I really don't think it does. Outwardly, he may see her actions and think he pushed her, but the thing that really pushes a WW away is for him to hold her tightly. The mindset of a WW is so twisted from what is logical, and I think that is what H's have trouble getting past. The steps he sees as the logical way to save his M does nothing but push her away.
Of course she would tell the MC that she feels you are roommates. She has lost respect for the H who won 't stand up to her, tolerates disrespect from her, acts like her servant, and uses passive behavior. That type of behavior killed her attraction. Knowing this..........can you guess what it will take to get the attraction back?
Quote:
4. She recognizes that she tends to take an "all or nothing" approach to everything. And if she wants to find happiness in her current situation, she has to figure out how to find a happy medium between extremes that she can live with.
That is her job, not yours. You don't control her. What you do is protect your own feelings from her selfish and disrespectful decisions of finding her happiness. You do control what goes on in your home and in front of you.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
sandi2. Thanks so much for detailed response and tough love. Everything you're saying makes sense, and I have read your 2 stickies on the subject several times.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
My stand on MC is that it won't work while she has a wayward heart. You are too vulnerable and needy to be revealing anything in a couple's session. You have to stop chasing her! That is the first step.
So what's the move on this? I'm certainly not going to come out and suggest that we quit MC when she's still willing to go. I think this would be just as bad as explaining my detachment techniques. So other than quitting MC, the alternative is to keep going and just be as stoic as possible?
Originally Posted By: sandi2
She has lost respect for the H who won 't stand up to her, tolerates disrespect from her, acts like her servant, and uses passive behavior. That type of behavior killed her attraction. Knowing this..........can you guess what it will take to get the attraction back?
Clearly the opposite right?: Stand up to her. Do not tolerate disrespect. Don't act like her servant. Be aggressive...But I can see that it's possible to get carried away with this mindset and just come off like an A-hole.
I have definitely been doing a lot more work around the house than I used to, but I don't see it as being her servant. I do these things for the good of my family. So that my kids have clean clothes, a clean house, a nice yard, food prepared, and to show them what it means to be responsible. But I don't want to split hairs if I don't have to. For example, if I'm doing the laundry, I'm not going to leave out my W's clothes and just wash everything else.
Anyway, it's a lot to think about and I truly appreciate the folks on this board who are helping me. It's truly inspiring.
M46 W48 M11 T14 S11 D8 BD: 2016/05/27 In-home separation: 2016/11/23 Nesting: 2017/06/11 W moves out: 2018/01/07 W goes public with OM: 2018/07/12 I ask for a divorce: 2018/12/14
sandi2. Thanks so much for detailed response and tough love. Everything you're saying makes sense, and I have read your 2 stickies on the subject several times.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
My stand on MC is that it won't work while she has a wayward heart. You are too vulnerable and needy to be revealing anything in a couple's session. You have to stop chasing her! That is the first step.
I'm certainly not going to come out and suggest that we quit MC when she's still willing to go.
I'm certainly not going to come out and suggest that we quit MC when she's still willing to go.
Not saying you should or shouldnt.
But why not?
Because I believe this action is likely to backfire. At least right now since we've only had 2 sessions and we're still feeling things out. I think if just declare out of nowhere that we should stop MC my W will take is as yet another sign that I give up when things get too difficult. This is something about me that she has complained about (and that I've honestly been guilty of) for a long time.
BUT...
Let's assume the sessions continue for another couple of months and nothing changes because she is still stuck in this state of ambiguity. I would certainly consider stopping the MC sessions in that situation.
M46 W48 M11 T14 S11 D8 BD: 2016/05/27 In-home separation: 2016/11/23 Nesting: 2017/06/11 W moves out: 2018/01/07 W goes public with OM: 2018/07/12 I ask for a divorce: 2018/12/14
Bumping this up because I'm having a very rough morning. This detachment sh-- is really hard some days. I miss my wife and she's laying right next to me. We live separate lives and yet we share the same life. I know I don't really have a choice but it's hard to stay motivated. I keep thinking of that song, "say something I'm giving up on you." And now as I sit on the train at 5:30 am heading in to work for another day of the grind, I feel like I want to give up. I can't see far enough ahead to envision a day when this will all be different. I ache for any kind of physical contact. I'm sex starved. I feel so isolated. But I just keep putting on my happy face. And I don't want to do it today.
M46 W48 M11 T14 S11 D8 BD: 2016/05/27 In-home separation: 2016/11/23 Nesting: 2017/06/11 W moves out: 2018/01/07 W goes public with OM: 2018/07/12 I ask for a divorce: 2018/12/14
