I guess it all depends on the stage each sitch is in. For my case, I don't ever see us reconciling anymore not because of me but because of the resentment she has for me and her stating she will never forgive me. Who knows, maybe I am wrong. Maybe if I do move up there we might get back together. I can't worry about that now. My M was only 6 years. I can see how it would be positive in the example you gave. I guess the best outcome for me is that STBX and I end up as good coparents.
H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6 S-9,8,8,6,4 S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15 EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16 PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16 XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16 Finally moving forward...
Gently V! Most times what brings us to this point is waywardness which is little to do with poor thinking from instance black and white or magical thinking.
That is the waywards chioce instead of working on their M, they feel entitled to behave as they choose. There are of course those who want to walk without waywardness. Those M might be saved.
Waywardness is bad behaviour, poor choices and absolute selfishness. Of course few of us are ideal partners, but frankly the responsibility for bad choices lies with the one who made them.
We can clean up our side of the street with a broom and shovel whilst the other side needs a truck and a crew with hazmat suits.
Doing the best we can for ourselves is our overarching requirement and yes I think developing ourselves helps us. An R is a communication between two in an M, taking time to have the skills to be a great partner is wonderful and part of our selves personally.
With a walkaway resolving ourselves may aid the R and certainly can heal an M. If the other is a wayward all of the effort in ourselves and our M likely has little effect on the wayward. We loose sight of the fact we are fine, just fine as we are and we are tinkering at the edges.
I put the responsibility on the waywards and their scuzzies and dipstick OP. Nasty unpleasant selfish behaviours and choices made by entitled jerks. No poor thinking of an LBS is ever an excuse for it. We may be chumps, and we M these waywards. This is the choice of the wayward fair and square.
In order to piece an M the wayward makes different choices and gets the big clean up of their side of the street.
My 2c worth.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
I have so much to learn and grow as a person. Thank you for chiming in. Your words are perfect!
H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6 S-9,8,8,6,4 S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15 EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16 PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16 XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16 Finally moving forward...
I don't disagree with anything you said. I think you misunderstood what I was saying. (And I might have misunderstood what Jim was saying.)
In the part of his post that I bolded, Jim said that what you do to work on yourself and what you do to work on the marriage are very different things.
The implication was that working on yourself and working on the marriage are in conflict, and that's the part I was questioning.
I think working on yourself is the one constant that holds true regardless of whether your spouse is walkaway or wayward, and whether you are in LRT or piecing. I don't see it as conflicting in any way with working on the marriage.
I was curious about why Jim thought they were in conflict. (And maybe he doesn't and I misunderstood the part I quoted.)
I am not in any way blaming anyone here for their wayward spouse's behavior and choices. Nor am I saying that if we all work on ourselves, all of our marriages will be saved. (I just happen to think that working on ourselves makes us better able to handle whatever happens in our marriages and gives our marriage the best chance of succeeding in terms of our side of the street. If the other side of the street has collapsed into a sinkhole, obviously our side being clean is not the major issue.)
I was simply curious about what I read as a claim that working on yourself and working on the marriage are very different from each other and potentially in conflict.
Me: 44 H: 44 Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10 Together/Married: 22 years H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16 H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
My point isn't about blame at all. Just we are good enough already most often without work. We are great folk, wondrous parents (Jim here this) and loving men and women.
We can develop ourselves for our own sakes if we want to. Most often it is healing from the damage the wayward does and growing detachment and self compassion.
In many cases it makes diddly difference if the wayward is in la la. Jim jumping through hoops becoming Brad Pitt or Superman won't help. He is wonderful and amazing just as he is.
So becoming who we want to be for us is perfectly fine.
We are worth being M and in an R with.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
I'm sorry, Jim, I just can't imagine you have gone through everything you have to say "you take the boys, I'll come move up there". Tough love? You mean to see if tough love would make her think it was a better idea just to reconcile?
Live your new reality for a little while, because once you make that decision, that's pretty much it.
It's awful any of us have to be here making these decisions. But these decisions need to be thought through very thoroughly.
I guess when we read things on threads that do not always communicate correctly. I do not believe that the two are in conflict. I do belive they are independent of each other. If a person takes stock on the status of their M and can catch things early enough, I agree that it does benefit and support the M or R, thus the bonus is a healthier union between spouses.
The reality for most on this forum though is that we do not realize our M is lost until it is to late, thus making the two items independent of each other. Even if I do become Liam Neeson I may not get my wife back but I might get someone as beautiful as Lady V in the future!
H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6 S-9,8,8,6,4 S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15 EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16 PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16 XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16 Finally moving forward...
Something really jumped out at me that no one else has commented on. After the kids told mom they had Cheetos at 8am you tell us.
"She no longer has that right to dictate what I can and cannot do with them on my time."
I could not disagree with you more here and if you don't work on this these kids will run all over you and W in future years. Yes, she has no right to dictate to you. That said, kids need consistency and will play the two of you against one another like there is no tomorrow. You both really need to figure out how to parent together. Allowing the kids one set of rules while with you and another with mom just is not a good idea. The two of you need to discuss and agree on these things and then stick to it. If not it will be when you say no, they will go to mom. When mom says no they will go to you. Not good. She should not dictate to you nor you to her. You need to compromise and agree. FWIW Cheetos at 8 am is not the hill to die on. 8 pm maybe. Just admit it was not your best idea.
Then as Ginger and others are saying, I really don't get this custody thing. Are you saying you fought and paid to get primary custody and now want to give it up before it's even started? Dude, WTF? As the others have said, you need to step back and breathe. Don't undo what you just fought and worked to get. Why on earth would you do that? I'll stop here but, that scares me for you. Don't make any decisions until you get a clear head.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
JK, I fully admit that I have absolutely zero experience as a parent, but I would also urge you to just step back and take a break for a while. There is no need to do anything right now besides take a little time to recover your equilibrium.
Breathe, JK.
((((((((((Jim ))))))))))
H: 44, Me: 45 Married: 20 y Together: 25 y no kids Walk away: 12/15 Asked for temp separation 12/25/15 PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had) H filed for D 5/16
I have been thinking a lot over the last few days and have realized my STBX's POV. She will never get a job to support the boys and contribute to their well being financially. No one can force STBX to get a job. So who will be the sole breadwinner for the boys, me.
Do yourself a huge favor, and do NOT dictate what the future will be...
Do NOT dictate future success, nor future failures...
Also do not try to predict what your WAS is capable of doing, or not capable of doing...
And while you are there, knock off trying to be the Martyr .
Originally Posted By: JimKao
When I consider things long term, is it better for me to have custody of them or is it better for me to provide financially. I do not feel right paying daycare and babysitters when she does not have to contribute to paying a portion of that financially. My boys will miss out on being able to do other activities since we will still be a divorced single income family.
If I stay in Michigan they will be travelling back and forth for the next 15 years at least once a month. This is too much for such for them.
So I have decided that once the D is done, I am going to speak with STBX and have the boys live with her and I will move to Toronto and the boys can move into the new house with her and start school there in January. I am going to speak with my VP again about the transfer. There was also a promotional opportunity at the facility in Toronto that I am going to see if I can get.
What is best for the boys, is for you to quit trying to win back your WAS by making knee-jerk, irrational decisions about your future. and the future of the boys....
What is best for the boys, is SHOWING them how to come through a difficult period of your life without taking the easy path...
Originally Posted By: JimKao
I am sure that there are many that would say money isn't everything. I want to be the best dad I can be. I know that whoever has custody will need help raising 5 boys so I guess for the sake of the boys, it is best we do that as a team and co-parent in the same city. STBX has had a lot more time to disassociate the M and our R from the love that we both have for the boys, I am just getting to that point.
At least I can show my boys that I am a man who provides for his family and does what a person has to in order to ensure that they have all I can offer them. I am sure that STBX will do the same based on her abilities.
STBX has told me many times, let's work this out and not spend money on L's. Guess I should have listened to her as the outcome in the long run will end up the same as what she wanted, just with less money now. STBX is a smart person. I have learned a lot over the last year of this rollercoaster ride.
Toronto ? Really ??
Don't get me wrong, Toronto is a nice city. However, you making the decision to move there, on a small sliver of hope that it will either cause her to have second thoughts, or to actually co-parent with you....
Is pretty naive....
I would Google what it means to parallel parent your kids...
Maybe, one day, you can co-parent, but for the next few years, you will look more like the parallel kind of parenting.
It takes work and communication to co-parent. You are still way too raw for that, and from reading about her, she has zero interest in it...
Originally Posted By: JimKao
I will explain to my boys at some time in the future that I did not give them to STBX because I gave up, I gave them to her because she loves them and so do I and in order to ensure they have everything they need to live a stable life I am giving them the gift of their mother.
I realized I don't need to see them everyday in order to be happy and be the best dad that I can be. Although I long for this sitch to be different, it is my reality. I have a lot of work to do on myself to show these little men what a good man is.
B is for bullschidt....
Again, cut the martyr crap...
Secondly, do NOT pull them into this...
Thirdly, giving up for your above reasons, and giving up because you can't put a bottle down, or a needle down....???
In the end, you are still giving up on them, the reason will be irrelevant in the future...
Originally Posted By: JimKao
I am still hopeful that one day STBX and I will be back together, but that choice will be on her. It is a shame that people hold resentment, anger and cannot forgive others for their actions. It affects more than just the two people who were in an R or M.
I have to rebuild the friendship with her, I want to be flexible with her on raising these boys. I want the boys to see a smile on both their parent's faces, M or not. Life is not black and white. Most people would like it to be, even me. Going through this experience shows me that life is grey.
I once was the kind, giving, chivalrous gentleman that STBX fell in love with. I want to be that man again and better. When STBX made the decision to move to Michigan she said she would make it work. Well that did not happen, so it is my turn to try and make it work and see where life takes me.
Huge difference between being flexible, and giving away your mojo at every opportunity....
And you have a better shot at anything in life if you CHOOSE to not cut and run from it...
Life is about handling the grey....
The black and white are the decisions that you make to get to the grey...
Black and White are the decisions that aren't flexible, grey is..
Black and White are from where you LEAD your family...
Grey is where you moan about what you didn't do in the black and white...
Do your self a favor Jim....
Do NOT make any decisions while you are raw from this ???
