Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers H filed for divorce - is it too late?

Thanks, Cherry. Honestly, I've never even been through a break-up before at all so everything about this is so new to me.

Sorry you're here. I agree with getting a DB coach, it is the best investment you could make. And I applaud you for standing by your marriage in a day when M's without children are looked at by many as being as disposable as a paper plate.

The one thing that stood out was that the topic of infrequent sex didn't come up until the second page of your thread, there was little elaboration on this, and the feeling that 'well, he doesn't want sex now so not much I can do'.

For most 28 year old males, a fulfilling sex life is a critical NEED. I am on record of saying that I think most women underestimate the importance of sex to their husband, not just by a little, but by a scale of more than 10 to 1. Who knows the number, point is that it is much, much, much more important than I think you have even begun to guess. And it has almost nothing to do with the physical release which any man can do for himself, but for many men it is the way that they feel loved.

For me, when my marriage went through a sex starved period I felt absolutely void of love. I actually felt MISUNDERSTOOD and REJECTED. Not rejected because "oh, I'm not in the mood today" kind of rejection. I'm talking the "There is something fundamentally wrong with you for being who you are" rejection. Because if she did understand how important this was to me she wouldn't have dismissed it, any more than you would not feed your dog food because you weren't in the mood. And if she didn't understand how important it was, then she didn't even know who I was, at ALL. And her failure to understand who I was made me again feel grotesque, like an alien that she didn't want to look at or deal with, so she'd ask me to wear a mask over my head and pretend to be this other person that she wanted me to be, and when my soul was crying out in anguish and starvation to just bite my tongue because she didn't want to deal with it.

Totally lonely. Totally unloved. Totally misunderstood. Trapped in a marriage with someone that had no clue who I was, didn't seem to care, and wouldn't hear me when I tried to explain.

To your WAH's comments, I remember feeling I was essentially a single man that couldn't date other women and had to pay 100% of my paycheck in support.

No one can read WAH's thoughts, but I can see how he would be warm and cold, why he would say he's a loser, and why he might be exploring dating options. He could be warm because he still has feelings for you and is probably very attracted to you, but he has learned that he can't trust his needs with you and it will only lead to soul crushing torture if he tries, so he is distancing himself to protect himself because even though you look like the yin to his yang, he knows where the road leads when he tries to voice his needs to you and is rejected. He could feel like a loser for the same reason a kid might feel like a loser if their dad walked out when they were a kid. He wants to know what's so wrong with him that you'd let him starve to death emotionally when he'd do anything for you? And he could be going back and forth with other women because on the one hand he dreams of a relationship where his needs are met, but on the other he might be mixed about feelings for you, and more likely just feels he can't trust any woman with his needs because he's been burned so many times he is shattered and protective of his inner self. Of course, he may be indeed having an affair.

I'm not here attacking you, trying to make this all your fault, or defending your WAH's actions. It is a truly sad situation and I am 100% opposed to the choices that your WAH made.

But for you, here, now, standing by your M...I think you should move infrequent sex up on the list of 180s and make it number one by a long shot. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, I know there are different love languages, but if given the choice between having a fulfilling and adventurous exploratory sex life versus a vacuumed floor, I just can't see many 29 year old men choosing the rug creases.

What can you do about it now? Well, I'd recommend you learn everything you can about the topic of why sex is important to men, sex starved marriages, what fulfilling and adventurous sex means to men, etc. Read the stuff from a man's point of view, and see if you can bridge the understanding gap. It may not seem like it could make a difference what you know, or what you think now...but I think it does. It comes out in many ways without having to have sex. He has probably subtly tested you at times, trying to determine if it was safe to open up to you, and maybe decided it wasn't because of a reaction you didn't even know you gave off...like he might have said 'you know why I can't do this anymore', and when you stared blankly he knew that you'd never understand him and therefore could never meet his needs...or any of many other little things like this. I believe if you TRULY understand this better it will show, someway, somehow. You will be more compassionate and understanding of him when he is upset, you might validate slightly differently, etc. I'm NOT suggesting you pursue him or try to show off this understanding, but he won't be able to notice if it's not there, and even if he decided to come back the M might not be any better if you don't take these steps.

Hang in, keep posting, get a DB coach, and don't give up. Many long term marriages have moments like this. You can't control him or guarantee the outcome, but you can absolutely do everything possible to give it the chance to work out. You're off to a good start. Keep going!

This is very good advice from Zeus. Zeus, can you define "sex starved" period more succinctly?

Yeah, I didn't mention it before because I'm more of a private person and it's embarrassing to me. I'm not sure why, but sex started hurting about 3 years ago so became infrequent. Every time I went to the dr they gave me pills for a yeast infection but it never really helped, it so hurts to have sex. We would still "fool around" but... It's not the same. And he would end up having finish himself most nights. I'm so ashamed, especially if this is a major contributing factor to our divorce.

I knew it was important to him, but I guess I didn't realize quite how much. That he would feel unloved misunderstood, and rejected.

Thank you for that insight, I will try harder to understand. And I will call a DB coach. I hadn't yet because I had almost given up all hope, but if there's even a 1% chance, I have to fight for it.

Though, I honestly don't think there is another woman... yet. He's been telling me about his unsuccessful dating attempts so far.

I know it was suggested previously that I set the boundary of him not talking about other women to me, but I feel like if I'm trying to be a good, understanding friend I should listen to his problems. If he was telling me like, how great his new girlfriend is our something I would ask him not to say that to me.

I read one success story where a husband was cheating on his wife and left her for his mistress, but she just continued to be his best friend and never gave her approval for the OW but listened supportively and he realized his wife was his best friend and went back to her.

Sorry for typos, I'm on mobile at the moment

Still feeling pretty bummed about his lack of affection the last time we hung out. I wasn't expecting a LOT of affection, obviously, but the little mixed signals he was sending gave me a little hope that he was still "on the fence" so to speak...

I don't get many chances to connect with him. Our schedule's are so opposite I hardly ever get to even see him. Pretty much just on weekends and even then he might want to go out with friends instead of spend time with me. I work in the mornings so he's asleep when I get up, and he works evenings so he's at work when I get home, and I'm asleep when he comes home.

I'm not sure if this is a good thing, as he did want more time/space, or a not so good thing, as now how will he see my changes? I know they're for me - and they are, a lot of my GAL changes have helped me immensely and I'm going to keep them up no matter what happens, but they're also a little bit for our M, aren't they? I mean, this isn't a purely "get over it" type of strategy, it's also a "save your marriage" strategy...

Planning to schedule DB coach session tomorrow after my IC appointment...

Thank you Altair. If you meant what sex starved means in general I'm not really sure when it crosses that line versus a valley that all marriages go through at times. There is a sub-forum with much more information, although I hope csabo stays in newcomers as there is next to no traffic over there. But I would say that when the 'lower drive' spouse feels painfully neglected and the time turns from months to years...at that point I would consider it 'sex starved'.

Note, I didn't say no sex at all. I just said when it becomes infrequent enough to leave a substantial deficit. I also don't believe it's all about frequency, if the partner viewed sex as a necessary evil, went through the motions, in a routine and clinical way, I could see that leaving a huge emotional void of feeling misunderstood and neglected as well.

If you were asking in my specific case, well, this was irreconcilable differences in action. We definitely went through stretches of 6 months or a year without sex, or any physical contact, or in some cases without even speaking. I'd say this was our normal for 36 out of the last 42 months we were together. I was defeated. I couldn't engage with her without it causing more pain. I loved her, missed her, and wanted to be with her, but I didn't know how to start. Meanwhile she did try a few times to be accommodating and when she did I felt like the luckiest and most loved man in the world, but then she'd pull away and basically say that she didn't view sex like I did, that we weren't compatible, that she couldn't be the person I wanted her to be, etc.

In the end this is probably why we're divorced now. And it's really the reason I might not date again. It was the most painful thing in the world. I'd rather be alone than to be pushed away when I open up and asking for my most inner emotional needs to be met. For me personally I couldn't have sex with anyone. It would have to be my wife, my life partner, the one person that I can open up to and trust my heart with. So I'm not going to date casually or look at sex as something I can just go and do. It would be disgusting and mean nothing to me. But I don't know that I could open up again either. I don't think a woman could really understand or accept the desire in my heart, which is a large part of who I am.



I'm sorry to hear, this is incredibly difficult for both of you and I can see why you might be devastated and feel like you're damaged goods when he walks, and betrayed and blamed unfairly for being who you are.

First off, I know that if XW had been permanently unable to have sex it would've been possible to make it work. Not easy, it would've been incredibly hard. But possible. Because it's truly an emotional need, not a physical one. I could think of ways that we could work it out. To share fantasies together, explore each other in different ways, again, this is embarrassing for me as well but the point is that there are many ways this could have been worked out, if my partner had understood the need and made it a priority to work with me.

That said, I think it's premature to write off sex altogether. And I think that the amount of effort that should be put in before writing it off should match the amount of effort you'd put in to curing, say, paralysis from the waist down. If you were paralyzed from the waste down and the first few doctors shot from the hip and gave you pills that didn't work, would you shrug and say 'meh, I guess I won't walk again...'? Probably not. You'd make it your life's mission to figure out what was going on and get it diagnosed and cured. What if it was your husbands paralysis? Well, this is how serious it is to your H. So for you to accept the lack of sex in your relationship is basically letting him wither because you're not the one feeling the daily, hourly, pain and suffering yourself. I think this was a mistake.

I would encourage you to look into this again. Clearly the diagnosis you received didn't work. Maybe it's truly chronic and nothing can be done, but again, I'd need to hear that from a large number of different specialists that had all died trying to figure it out for me before I considered accepting that.

Shoot, it's possible that if you got this figured out this could be a big part of the solution. I worked with a DB coach and at one point she had me write WAW a letter apologizing for what I did wrong in the marriage. I am not your WAH, but only because I would never leave my M. But we did go through stretches of defeat as I mentioned. Had she told expressed understanding of who I was, what I needed, told me she'd work with me to care for me, and back that up with action...well, I don't see how I couldn't have been absolutely fulfilled and loved for the rest of my days, and I can't imagine a guy walking from that.

Don't twist my words. I don't want you to pursue, I don't want you to have expectations, I don't want you to have sex with someone that is telling you they are leaving you if it cheapens you, etc. It's a tricky situation. But I do think getting this figured out quietly on your own is a good step, and from there get a DB coach and see what they advise.

Wishing you all the best.

I got myself another appointment to see if they can tell me anything besides yeast infection. We'll see.

He has said he doesn't want to just sleep around, it's not who he is, so maybe he feels similarly to you, zues.

He did tell me he has dreamed about other women kissing him, one girl from work he admits he has a crush on (but she turned him down when he asked her out) and one girl in his grad school classes. I don't know if that necessarily means anything, I guess, that he's dreaming about other women.

I know I'm not supposed to talk to him or ask for affection, but I was considering asking him to try to spend time with me a little more on the basis that I don't know how much longer I have with him and I want make the most of what little good times we have left before the divorce process makes him hate me.