Okay, starting a new thread, the last one was getting too long. For the background, visit my previous thread. I have definitely figured a few things out at this point, thanks to many folks here. The next few months will tell the tale. Today I am going to give W the letter I have prepared, and begin the discussions again. I am setting a firm boundary that I will not wait and wait and let things slide as I have done in the past. I need progress. It doesn't have to be a lot, but it does need to be visible, and continuous, and lead to greater intimacy between us. Nothing less than that is acceptable to me.
I did something pretty radical this morning. I shaved off the beard I first grew in 1977. The last time I shaved it off was 1982, and I didn't keep it off very long at that time. My kids have never seen me without it. I have no idea what the effect will be, or whether I'll like it, but I decided to try something different.
S12 seems to like it, he says "It looks good." Not sure if he's being honest or just trying to save my feelings. Time will tell.
S18 held up his hand to cover the lower part of my face in his vision, then said "Ok, there you are..."
W said to S18 "It's a typical mid-life thing... a couple people at work said he should shave it off because of the grey, so he's trying to look younger."
There's a TV show called "MadTV", and one of the comedians has a character called "Miss Swan", who's a sort of funny little oriental woman, and in one episode she's describing someone, and says "He look-a like-a man." W says "You look-a like-a new husband." I said "Lucky you. Maybe you'll spend more time kissing this new face."
As David Copperfield said (and I'm paraphrasing, as it's been decades since I read it), whether I turn out to be the hero or the villain of this piece is yet to be seen...
Just a thought here, but do you think that your W may have been waiting for you to make a move on her last night? Kind of one of those things where she isn't going to go looking for it, but she wouldn't stop it if it happenend.
I know that sounds really un-romantic and it probably wasn't what you were hoping for at all, but it could be that she wants to improve and has absolutely no idea how to do so, or her discomfort and fear is getting in the way of her trying.
I know I have a very, very hard time initiating sex, although I think I am getting better. I feel like I have two left feet, I feel self-conscious, I feel like an idiot. Now my H has told me I have no reason to feel this way with him, but often these types of feelings aren't rational anyway, so there really is no comfort for me when he says that. I understand that this is my problem I have to face, and the only way I am going to get over it, or get better at it is to keep doing it -- fake it til you make it, as AD says.
But it was SOOOOO hard to just get started. I criticize my H for his less than suave attempts to initiate sex with me, but jesus, compared to me, he is a Valentino.
Thanks, Corri, it's a good thought, and definitely in the right place, but no, I don't think that was in the air last night at all. As I posted in "Tim47's Lament", the only way I can initiate anything with her at all is to out-and-out ask. Verbally. She will NOT respond to anything more subtle than that. When we were dating, we used to sit in her parents' downstairs family room (finished basement) and watch TV. I'd sit at one end of the couch, and she would lie on the couch leaning against me, and we'd watch. Arranged that way, it was easy to arouse her... I would usually begin by brushing her earlobes lightly with my fingers and running my fingers through her hair, then progress to where I was lightly fondling her breasts, through her shirt at first and then underneath, than at some point (after a LONG, lovely time occupied as above) I would (or she would) open her jeans, and I'd have easy access to her love-place, and I would bring her to orgasm. That was a regular occurrance for us at that time. We were both virgins when we met, and remained "virgins" until the wedding night, although we eventually did pretty much everything BUT penetration.
Anyway, once we got married, the "rule" was that married couples don't do that kind of thing, they just go to bed and ML. Never mind that it was a VERY pleasant thing for both of us, it was "against the rules". So now, 25 years later, I have NO way to initiate anything at all other than by asking. And again, the only way SHE ever initiates is by announcing she's going to take a bath. Then, of course, it's "do or die" for me.
Besides, DD20 was watching TV with us last night right up till bedtime. CRAP!
That's what I mean... I can never get within a mile of W in any kind of loving way, and there are so many "rules", it's just friggin' impossible. So once again last night, I jerked off in bed right next to her after saying goodnight (she's asleep almost immediately).
Hi Tim - That is just so strange (must have been to you, too) that she was so sexual with you before marriage, but turned it off once you'd made the relationship official. I'm sure you've asked her where she got that idea (from her own mother, maybe?) - what did she say??? H and I had a pretty ho-hum sexual courtship, with his excuse being he'd spice it up after we got married. Of course, that didn't exactly pan out either.
I'm so sorry you are going through all this, Tim. But I'll bet you do look like a new man with the beard shaved and all. Maybe tonight you could give her a wink and say, "Honey, how 'bout a bath?"
Quote: That is just so strange (must have been to you, too) that she was so sexual with you before marriage, but turned it off once you'd made the relationship official
HH, it was a LONG time ago (we've been married 25 years in June!), and as long as we were SOMETIMES ML, it didn't seem to matter all that much, although I DID miss it (I DO miss it!!!). This was even way before we had kids. She just decided, like right after we were married, that there was "no need" for certain things. Necking on the couch was one of those things. GOD how I miss it. Then, about 6 years ago, she decided that cunnilingus was to be added to that list (things we no longer need). Well, I can tell you, (this may surprise you) I was very vocal about the fact that I need it, obviously much more than she does, but it did me no good.
Quote: I'm so sorry you are going through all this, Tim. But I'll bet you do look like a new man with the beard shaved and all. Maybe tonight you could give her a wink and say, "Honey, how 'bout a bath?"
I'm sorry we're ALL going through this. It sure isn't any fun. Early poll results suggest the beard should make a speedy return. Nobody seems to like the "new me". Oh, well, it was an interesting experiment.
As for tonight, nothing's going to happen. The blasted painting project made a wreck of today. She and I were both working at it all day. I got in a second coat on part of it this morning about 9:00, then off to work for 9:40, got home around noon, and straight back to painting. Quick lunch break around 1:30, then painting straight through until supper (7:00), then painting again from 7:30 till almost 8:30. Got the edging done and first coat on the entry, LR/DR and upstairs hallway. We can now see the full effect for the first time, and it looks good! But both of us are tired, and SHE, for sure, will NOT be in the mood. But I do plan to initiate at least a BIT of discussion tonight. I need PROGRESS, dammit!! I won't put it quite that way, tho...
No, I won't be giving her "the letter" tonight, it wouldn't be fair. We've worked too long and hard today, we're both too tired, and tempers would flare too easily. DD20 had a hissy fit earlier, as she was getting ready to go out, and had no underwear... (give us a freakin' break, daughter dear, we've been effin' PAINTING ALL WEEK!!!)... so not tonight. Maybe tomorrow, tho, if things go better. No edging tomorrow, just rolling. The edging is what took most of the day... Do I sound like I'm insane yet???
Quote: HH, it was a LONG time ago (we've been married 25 years in June!), and as long as we were SOMETIMES ML, it didn't seem to matter all that much, although I DID miss it (I DO miss it!!!). This was even way before we had kids. She just decided, like right after we were married, that there was "no need" for certain things. Necking on the couch was one of those things. GOD how I miss it.
Hmm.. I deduced a while ago that this is one of the factors contributing to my current LD state. (not enough make out time) I'm surpised your W thinks it's unnecsesarry, and hasn't made the connection between it and higher desire on her end. When you look at what was different when the desire was present, and what's different now, that's a HUGE factor, a HUGE behavior change. One of the things, I've noticed about me, is how easy it is to procrastinate the whole sex thing, since I know chances are good that tomorrow or the next day will work (stretches into weeks). Now if I could only get that feeling about food and chocolate, getting in better shape would be so much easier.
Sadly, I know much of the excitement and desire for LM is gone simply because the anticipation is gone. I realized that I NEED the anticipation, the planned dates, KNOWing that my H makes an effort to be with me, and for me to make the EFFORT to be with him, connect, concentrate and be with H. Strong emotions (like passion) cannot live in a vacuum, they need food (feeding thoughts and actions) to sustain them.
Maybe part of your wife's reasoning for thinking she doesn't need to do that stuff anymore, is because she's living in 'reality' of marriage, and doesn't believe there's any point in feeding the 'fantasy', not realizing that she's dimminishing her reality experiences by doing so.
When we date, we immagine what life will be like together. When we are finally together, sometimes we stop imagining, and sadly much is lost. I hope you and your wife can start imagining together again.
Quote: DD20 had a hissy fit earlier, as she was getting ready to go out, and had no underwear... (give us a freakin' break, daughter dear, we've been effin' PAINTING ALL WEEK!!!
Good grief, she is an adult and a capable person. I know your W prefers to do the laundry, but really... shesh..
Laundry service is a privilage, a perk. My S13 has done this, I tell him, don't yell at me about it. You are responsible for knowing if you need clothes or not. Letting me know 2 min before you need to walk out the door wearing it, doesn't work. Sometimes I won't get to it, do a batch yourself.
hmmm her options, do without, hand wash a pair quick and blowdry, be late, buy a new pair, borrow mom's?(no clue if they are the same size or not or if panties are taboo to borrow) As a young teen, the high drama is age appropriate behavior (though not acceptable), as an adult... nope, don't inflict the household with your lack of planning. (I do sympathize with the girl, I really do)
Quote: borrow mom's?(no clue if they are the same size or not or if panties are taboo to borrow)
ROTFLMAO!!!!! Oh, MG, THANKS for that mental image... what a hoot! If you could only see the difference in SIZE and STYLE... that was my morning belly laugh! Good thing I didn't have a mouthful of coffee!
Wow, it's dead in here today! No posts since lunchtime. Guess everyone must be getting along splendidly, maybe gettin' down 'n dirty on the living room floor! Yeah, like THAT's gonna happen, lol!
FINALLY finished the EFFIN' paint project!!!! Quarter to six in the effin' afternoon.. had to go to the office right after church for a couple hours, then painting since then. Man, I'm tired! She's still going around looking for spots to fix - she's SUCH a freakin' perfectionist. I'm not a slob, really - she wants even the edges behind the drapes to be perfect. Ho, hum...
This next week's gonna be a DRAG. Next weekend is Easter, which means in-law invasion. Not too bad, really... her parents, and her brother and his wife & 2 kids, plus her "old" friend (since high-school), her husband and 3 kids (she has 2 adopted, but is fostering a baby in the bargain). So there'll be, let's see... 6 adults, 4 kids in the 5-8 age range plus the five of us - fifteen people. Preparation for this, of course, will be intense.
Add to that the appointments due this week - her C, and optometrist, not sure what else, but the kids also have full schedules this week. I do wish I could convince her to slow down a bit and "smell the roses" - we don't get a lot of time on this earth, and she's wasting great gobs of it, imho. There's ALWAYS more "work", but there's a REAL shortage of time to "play".
Tonight's "big event" will be the season finale of "American Dreams". It'll be tight getting supper done and the house put back in enough semblance of order to allow us to watch in time. She was PLANNING on roasting a chicken for supper, but I talked her into buying one already roasted, to save time. I just couldn't see making it, otherwise.
I plan to give her "the letter" after the show. As far as I'm concerned, she can either read it then, or read it tomorrow, as long as she reads it. It might actually be better if she reads it when I'm at work, so she has to think about it for a long time before we can discuss it. Dunno... have to see what actually happens. I'll post the results (and the letter) up here by tomorrow...
