my finger and hand hurt. i'm typing with as few words as possible. thank you all for your support.
i don't know if my going dark lately had any effect. i called her on way to hospital, i said i was nervous. she was very nice and small talk with me all the way there (shows care). she was busy at work. she came to pick me up and was vey nice. she cried as soon as she saw me.
she said thats me when asked if she is my family member. she helped dress me. she bought groceries for me and helped me get my pain pills. we chit chatted in the car and it was nice. she continues to share details and talks about family.
when we got home she helped me undress and get settled. we sat for a few minutes and she of course asked about papers. i was still dizzy from anesthesia and emotional anyway and started sobbing. she started crying too. she tried to leave and say she had to get back to work and it was a bad idea for her to pick me up. i said i was sorry but i couldn't hold in my emotions anymore after hearing that (WTF kind of ? is this now?).
apparently my going dark hasn't effected her at all, she still pushes for it. we R talked a little and i said i understood why she felt she had to leave me. she said that was in the past. i agreed and said i wanted to focus on the future. i said i wanted her to be happy and i can't tell her how to feel but to not feel guilty bec of me, i've already forgiven her. we hugged a lot and cried and held hands. i said i'm going to feel real embarassed tomorrow when meds wear off and she said nonsense.
i asked if she would visit me tomorrow (today) her day off and she said she was she was going to a concert but would stop off during the day. she said she would call me later in the evening. she called later and said it was too emotional for her and she couldn't stop by and visit. i apologized for being so emotional and said i promised i wouldn't be that way if we didn't R talk. she said she would call me today. i guess i will see what happens.
my going dark seems to have only made it easier for her to detach from me further. i know it is only a finger, but she can't even hang out with me for 10 minutes without asking about papers. my hand hurts like heck, my heart and soul hurt way more.
Quote: she said thats me when asked if she is my family member. she helped dress me. she bought groceries for me and helped me get my pain pills. we chit chatted in the car and it was nice. she continues to share details and talks about family.
So she feels that you two are family? I think that's a very positive step on her part to say so. She definitely cares about you, she wouldn't have helped you with any of these things if she didn't.
I guess the question is where do you take things from here? You may be right that going dark doesn't seem to work. On the other hand, coming out of the dark by going into the hospital may have been the ineffective part. I'm only speculating about this though. I think its very obvious she still has feelings for you, but what plan on your part is going to coach her so that those feelings move away from sadness, move towards safety and comfort and joy? The things you've been doing to be her friend did seem to be working.
Also--I know you're a bit restrained typing right now--but what stage are the papers in? I've forgotten if they already prepared and awaiting your signature--or are things still at a draft level? My sitch hasn't come to this point, but I'm sure there are others here on the board who've been at this stage, who could offer some advice on how to proceed. I remember reading about some DB'ers who let their S proceed with D, as if they only want to make their S happy, and would do anything towards that end. I think there are also stories on the board about folks who have resisted or slowed down the D process in different ways. I can't remember what's worked and what hasn't, but I'm sure the particulars of the sitch make a difference too. You could do a search for some these threads, or maybe someone reading this remembers some of them.
I hope you feel better soon, I hope your finger feels better too.
Seattle, Long time no chat... I see you finally wore out your fingers typing. Hope your healing fast.
It would seem I am back in the saddle again fighting for something, Im not sure what. It would seem I should have taken a page from your book and instead of pulling back, perhaps tryed to connect more on a loving way. She found my DR book while I was kicked out of the house and it seems she is saying I was manipulating her and things got worse when I was doing these things. I treated her like a great big experiment. Well low and behold she found fault in this.
Anyway Im sorry to see things are not turning for you yet. Hang,in there and keep at it Seattle, I firmly believe Im not out yet. The scars are deep in my sitch and would seem that way in yours. It takes time and devotion. Dont quit. You can do this. My W is starting to see the light I think and yours will to. It takes time, I firmly believe what we do helps, but the thing that they need is time to heal and move on. I think thats why its so important to take care of you. Be her friend and show her al;l the unconditional love you can muster and things will come around if they were meant to be. As ussual, I think your doing great and can beat this time in your life. Hang in there, your freind, Eddy, God Bless..
Seattle (or are you Joey?)... looks like you've got your guys to shack up with at the flat in NYC. Looks like we've got another episode of Friends going.
Renew, I hope you're off to buy some spandex now...
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
OK, I'm sitting here with the latest issue of Spandex World, and frankly I'm just a little overwhelmed. Do I want the patriotic rock band red white and blue stripe bodysuit, or the more techno Matrix style faux chrome bottoms with a black top? Anyone, anyone?
Seattle, I hope you're doing well. Lately I've felt like I live in Seattle, we've had nothing but clouds and rain for the last several days here, and I don't think it will be letting up till Thursday.
First I’d like to THANK EVERYONE for uplifting words of encouragement. Although I haven’t posted much, they mean a lot to me, more than I can express.
I apologize for not posting and keeping up with you all. You all have been great inspirations to me and I care for all of you and hope your M’s are reunited and healed. I will try and catch up with you all soon, but please understand I’ve still got a pin sticking out of my finger for another two weeks at least.
The last week has been very difficult and trying for me. My regular work productivity has been further decreased due to the hand surgery, work piling up, client pressures increasing, I’m thinking of making a career switch (being recruited), my parents’ insurance claim issues due to fire, and of course my DR efforts. Easter was very emotional for me as was the entire week. Lots of things but we all are faced with challenges aren’t we?
As it relates to my DR efforts I believe I am switching things up, more on that later.
Karen & Wonder, thank you both for your concern. You ladies always have such great insights that I appreciate so much. Thanks for the hugs.
3J, I’ll see you this weekend so don’t get jealous from the hugfest! I thank you for your support and I think about you as well and also hope you catch a few breaks that don’t involve bones! I read your post and there are some positives.
Betsey, always nice to hear from you and I so value your insights and thoughts. I hope they pay us all $1M+ per post, we’d all be richer than Bill Gates, or I guess its Ikea guy now.
Eddy, glad to see you are back for round !@#$%^&*()_+, I’m really glad you are back friend.
I’m not so sure you should take any advice from me, it doesn’t seem to be working and it only destroys me when she is so blatently cold and still with OM everyday. I can understand your Ws feeling like she was a petrie dish but I think the WAS finds fault in everything and spins the story to read to support their position. I would guess it wouldn’t have mattered. I’m now thinking it was a necessary step to show her I love her, but I should have done it in the beginning when we were first S instead of going dark first. Is that what happened in your sitch or did you do a lot of pursuing initially?
I do very much agree the scars are very deep for her and I am not giving up. I have been keeping up with your thread and I can’t help but wonder if your withdrawing is drawing her back. Especially since you were really moving on with your life and it didn’t include her. You think this coupled with that she recognized you love her is waking her up?
Renew, thank you also for the hug. I don’t mind hugging a guy but as I told 3J, don’t fondle me there! Ha ha. I think the Matrix look is sleek and cool but I really like the Ted Nugent stripes of RWB, Wango Tango! If W had her way I would dress like Jon Bon Jovi. One of the rockers that is actually still M to his first and only.
I would also like to say if I could do this over, I would be doing it like you have been. I have said it before and I’ll say it again. You have got a great grip on this DR thing. I also think there is a point for tough love and calling it like it is if it does get that far.
I agree with your insights, she definitely cares about me, otherwise she wouldn’t have done any of those things. She immediately helped dress me, undress me, and dress me again and I didn’t even ask her to help. I will take this as + actions and not try to analyze motivations.
The sad part of all of this is she is consciously choosing to continue on this path and justifying her actions with every reason possible and choosing NOT to listen or consider anything else. I have seen it with her again and again.
She chooses to run from every situation that exposes her emotions. She chooses to contiune hanging on to the guilt, sadness, and resentment. She chooses not to spend time with me or consider how she is hurting me or even herself. She chooses not to communicate with me openly about us, only vague answers and then she has to go and run. I cannot make her choose anything else. I cannot even ask her to consider anything else, she has not and will not.
Going dark in the beginning didn’t work too well, it was more of the same then, especially as it relates to communication or better put a lack thereof and my cold and distant behavior. Since then, I have shown her friendship, understanding, compassion, and unconditional love in the face of hurt, pain, lies, secrets, an Affair (it is an affair to me if 2 months after we S she sees someone else), and her controlling and abusive behavior. What I mean by this is her not letting me see our dog at all (3 or 4 times in 6 months); choosing to shut me out again and again; choosing to use the business as an excuse as to why she can’t see me; choosing to surround herself with this new life; choosing to not allow me to communicate with her; choosing not to allow me any time whatsoever with her; controlling every interaction by running away; choosing not to communicate with me openly; choosing to keep pushing for papers. She is even doing that half assed.
You are probably right, coming out of the dark in this way was very emotional for her and she of course withdrew. But she began withdrawing about a week and a half prior to that, right after she was sharing some intimate fears of inadequacy she had and disappointments her family had with her. Could it be she felt she was getting too close and was vulnerable again? Maybe so.
She didn’t come visit me on Tues, the day after my surgery and her day off. She chooses not to make time for me, I’m no longer going to tolerate her excuses for being too busy. I will only view them as her choosing not to spend time with me, not that she really is too busy. I will accept them as such.
I called on Wed to say thank you and said call me. She didn’t call back. First time ever she has not returned a call in the time we’ve known each other. I called on Friday to say thank you, we chit chatted, things seemed good and I was happy and upbeat and so was she. I opened the conversation with I’ve haven’t forgotten about the papers, I’ve had a slight setback, please understand. She seemed ok with it. I then asked if we could go to dog park or something, it would be nice to see them both. She couldn’t squeeze me in for over a week, this coming Friday. Only for an hour and she leaves out of town for one week on business.
This royally pissed me off especially since she had Easter off and slow day Monday and Tuesday is off. I remained pleasant and asked if I could have dog for the week she is gone. She says, no. I ask why? She says, there is no discussing it at all, it is my choice, do you want to see me on Friday or not? Threats eh? I said ok and hung up. I didn’t know what else to do. I call back and say I understand it is your choice but I don’t understand why I can’t have dog while you’re gone? It has no impact on you unless I’m missing something? Am I? Will you please help me undrstand? Her reply was not further communication of helping me understand, but rather I’ll think about it. I’m not holding my breath.
I called on Easter to say Happy Easter and said call me. I wanted to give dog an Easter basket of dog treats and toys. I didn’t tell her that though. She didn’t call back. At this point I’m feeling very abused and battered. I’m feeling like I’ve been unfairly treated as a husband, lover, friend, and human being. Especially as a human being that has spent every day together. I deserve to be treated better than this.
I realize this was pressure and maybe too much for her given her emotional place. There is also a level of dignity and respect I need to maintain for myself, and none of her actions I’ve listed convey that to me. I’m feeling like a doormat. Every time we get a step closer, she forces herself and chooses to distance and throw up walls. Now she does not even return calls. All the while pushing for papers.
Where do I go from here you ask? Good question. I have been thinking long and hard on this. I have realized this whole pattern of her running away and choosing not face the reality is a pattern for her. It has been with us since the beginning. Initially when we became more intimate after dating, we faced questions every couple faces. I remember being very emotionally availble, that is what I knew then from past Rs. She would not or could not open up to me. Her answers about her feelings were vague and nondescript. Passive aggressive BS. I recognized my openess wasn’t working. I then adopted an eye for an eye attitude and hoped she would figure it out and start talking. She didn’t. My mistake was continuing this pattern despite knowing it wasn’t working. It became a vicious cycle and pattern.
I have also thought about how her parents deal with her when she does something to upset them or something wrong. Their reaction is to ignore her. They ignore her calls and attempts at contact. She gets frustrated by this but immediately realizes she is doing something wrong. Is guilt a factor here? Absolutely, as a friend said to me, guilt is not always bad, especially if it triggers self-reflection. It just shouldn’t be the only reason decisions are made.
This was big time true for me in how I realized I was wrong. I made some immediate changes and began to self reflect. Will this work on her? Will the distractions of a new business, new life, new friends, new OM, her divorce trap support network allow her to self reflect and give us a chance? Her sister is moving to Seattle so this will increase the guilt and pressure.
She is attention starved. She is a rebel and prefers negative attention to no attention at all. Couple this with her parents praising her sister all the time might trigger some self reflection. Who knows?
The unknown in all of this is will she go through with it? Good question. I haven’t the answer. I do know that showing her unconditional love is just allowing her to walk all over me. I would love to continue to “coach her so that those feelings move away from sadness, move towards safety and comfort and joy. The things you've been doing to be her friend did seem to be working.”
Yes, I agree they have been working. However working too slow and everytime there is progress, she chooses to build the wall up again.
I cannot tolerate this path anymore. I’m not giving up, I will continue to be her friend, be emotionally available, but not to the same extent as before. I will place myself first, my happiness first, my needs first. I will give to her only what I’m comfortable giving which isn’t much right now. I’m going to stand up for myself when I feel things are unjust or unfair. I’m going to state my feelings and call things like they are, since no one can dispute how I feel.
I’m expecting her to tell me no I can’t have the dog when she is out of town for a week. I will then use that opportunity to stand up for myself. Then I withdraw from initiating contact and live my life.
My act as if will be real, it will no longer be an act as if. It will just be living life. I have to decide how to handle papers, maybe mediator or maybe attorney or maybe just let her run with it or maybe she will not run with it.
Maybe this will draw her back or maybe it won’t have any effect on her. Either way I will be happy being me. Thank you.
Hope your healing fast. 