GAL does not in effect steer an HD person to LD...if it does that, it's your choice. GAL IMPO does not have anything to do with your desire level, but it does have to do with the other person taking notice....you will do your own thing, with or without them, and that often gets their attention, it makes you appear a stronger person to them.
I see you focusing on desire, desire, desire, sex, sex, sex.....but you still don't see the big picture on how different things that you do can affect your entire R dynamics. You seem to continually focus on sex all the time. I know you say you want an EC with your W, but you focus on sex....not the R, read your posts. Until you can focus on your R and stop running yourself in this same circle I don't see you moving forward.
Oh, and I can definitely tell you....I am the focus of my LDH's life. Anyone we know would tell you that as well, that man worships the ground I walk on and he shows me he loves me in the best ways HE is able to right now, those ways aren't necessarily the ways I need him to show me....but that doesn't mean I'm not a major focus of his life. I really feel you are being presumptuous saying what you think LD/ND people think/feel....you really don't know, you aren't in their shoes. You may think you aren't a primary focus for your W, but you really ought to ask her....don't ASSume it.
As many people have told you before CeMar, LD/ND people very often have issues in the M too, needs that aren't being met that are just as valid as the needs of yours that aren't being met.....and women's bodies simply change throughout the years, hormones change, sexual desire levels can definitely change.
FWIW, and I don't know that this will make one IOTA of difference to you but I have a good friend of mine......she's 45, still a very active and attractive lady. She loves her husband with every ounce of herself, would do anything she could for him....but you know what? She has absolutely no desire to have sex. After she had her 3rd child she lost her libido. She's been to Dr's. taken medications to try to increase her libido and nothing has worked. She will never turn her H down when he asks for sex, but she feels soooooo horrible that she no longer has that desire for it herself, he makes her feel like she's dysfunctional when she's not. This is something she has absolutely no control over. Her husband has been talking to her about her level of desire and asking her why she doesn't "want" him anymore.....you know what? This makes her feel absolutely terrible. He just doesn't understand that a physiological change has taken place in her body that she has NO control over. She cannot "will" the desire to be there, she has yet to successfully create that desire by medication as well. But because he keeps focusing on it I see my friend heading into a depression because she's not able to satisfy his need to feel "desired" no matter how hard she tries. He refuses to see that she does sooooo many things to show him he's desired in the ways that she can....but she cannot create that sexual desire if it simply is not there. From what she's told me there have even been times when she's initiated and he's stopped her because he thought she was just going through the motions (how unfair is that?)...when what she was truly doing was trying to show him how much she loved him....no the "sexual desire" wasn't there....but the desire to please him was. No she wasn't sexually driven, she wasn't driven by his definition of "desire", she was driven by love. But because what she was doing wasn't his "definition" of desire....he shut her down. He rejected her. I just wanted to share that bit of info with you....because in so many ways, when I read your posts....you are reminding me of her H.
I'm still waiting for you to share with us anything you've talked to her about that has expressed your dissatisfaction with your M and your situation. I truly suspect that your W has issues in your M too....don't you want to find out what those issues are?
Quote: This all sounds so clinical, a womens sex drive just peters out. So how is this women supposed to show love? How can a relationship exist where only one actully shows desire for the other. A LD women gets TONS of desire, while the man gets NOTHING. Meaningful love can ONLY be shown in the way that a spouse wants to receive it. So without desire, there is no meaningful love being displayed.
Cemar, here's part of what I posted to you in another thread. Tell me if the list of some of the things I do indicate love and desire to you.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I don't know how to make myself any clearer to you than I have in the past.
I once avoided NOP's touch, kisses and carresses. I don't recall flirting with him, since my standard operating mode was to avoid him as much as humanly possible while living in the same dwelling.
My sexual drive HAS NOT CHANGED.
But.
I flirt with NOP. I kiss him, caress him, grab his crotch, nuzzle his neck, touch him when I walk by, grab hugs, reach for his hand, kiss-lick-suck his penis, make love in various positions, playfully slap his naked butt when he's coming out of the shower. Last night I walked down the hall wiggling my a$$ at him and laughing about "presenting" to him like baboons do in nature. And I enjoy all of the above.
If *I* can change, *your wife* can too - and her sex drive doesn't have to return to its former glory days.
But you have to *start* somewhere.
Will scheduled sex automatically get you all of the above?
No.
But turning 'round and 'round without pushing for *something* will never get you any of the above.
Please talk to us, share what happens in your day with your wife. Don't just wander off without responding only to pop up later in some other thread repeating the same complaints. Share yourself as well as the complaints!
Quote: At best, the love given by a LD is like brother sister love, which will cause massive resentment when it is supposed to be LOVERS type love.
This is not true. I have shared some of my life and experiences with you that shows this is not true. What NOP gets from me cannot be qualified as sisterly love. So, it is not true that "the love given by a LD is like brother sister love."
I've done a lot of this GAL stuff in the last couple of years - ice skating, aerobics, guitar playing - and it does improve your life but I don't find it does much to improve your relationship. The main problem is that I'd like to GAL with my W such as learn ballroom dancing or salsa - something that we can spend time learning together but she just isn't interested and comes up with weak excuses. Yes I could go to ballroom dancing on my own but it just doesn't seem right to have to dance with strangers. Maybe I should book us a course without her prior knowledge but it seems selfish to force her into it and besides it would make her very cross. SD
Out of curiosity, what does your wife do to GAL on her own? Is there anything she has suggested you two do together, like knitting (gag!) or something?
Dave, YOu could tell her you are going to take <insert activity> lessons whether she wants to or not, that you'd prefer her to be your <insert activity> partner, but that her lack of participation is not going to stop you. Give her the opportunity, make sure she knows what fun she'll be missing out on if she chooses not to go, and then go do it regardless of whether she chooses to or not.
Cobra, She spends a lot of time entering competitions, devising slogans etc. She is a member of a comping club and spends a lot of time answering emails and on the compers message board. I do help with this but my slogans lean towars hairdog humour and would never win anything! She also goes out with her (LD) friends every couple of weeks. Other than that it is the usual running around after kids etc. Oh and she likes shopping. I have asked her out many times to the movies or for a meal but she will never come with me alone - we always end up with the whole family - which is nice but... She is quite slim and fit but has no co-ordination hense dancing is a no-no - except that learning and falling over etc makes it oh so much more fun! SD
I have no idea what “comping” is, but it sounds like she keeps active and tries to get a life of her own. Have you asked her if there is something she would like the two of you to do together? Is there any chance she uses the kids to avoid you? This brings to mind a book I read, that I have mentioned a few times. One thing the book mentioned is that “love avoiders” may become “love addicts” with someone else, like the kids, to avoid their spouse. Here’s and excerpt of a comment I made to Honeypot:
Quote:
Here is another angle, a topic I found interesting and made comments about in other threads. It is from the book "Facing Love Addiction: Giving Yourself the Power to Change the Way You Love --The Love Connection to Codependence" by Pia Mellody. Here's a website that refers to her work:
Both talk about a special subset of codependence they call the “Love Addict” and the “Love Avoider”. These two are responses to different childhood problems of abandonment. Could your longing for your husband also include this need for affirmation from him (implying you are the love addict), or do you think it is only biological? He on the other hand sounds like an avoider (like many men). The theory is that this too is a defense mechanism, out of fear on engulfment. This means that as an “abandoned” child, a dominant figure overloaded the child with too much emotional responsibility and stress. So withdrawing becomes the natural reaction.
But love avoiders will experience abandonment fears if the love addict stops pursuing them. This seems so contrary to the image they put forth. The avoider will also divert from the addict by himself becoming addicted to something else, like the kids, work or hobbies.
And by the way, couldn’t you two find a way to lessen her shopping just enough to pay for counseling every other week?
Yeah Cobra. Slow her shopping down a bit. lol. She doesn't usually spend much - just takes a long time over it. I hear what you say about love avoidance. If I were to withdraw all the ILYs, hugs etc would she miss them? I suspect she would. Trouble is I can't keep the withdrawal going for long because my HD catches up with me. Next year I intend to work away from home for week long sessions and that will be interesting although I expect she will take it in her stride (unless a cat bring a mouse in or she suspects I am looking for someone else). I'll check out the links, thanks. SD
