The GAL stuff is really accurate (and still something I'm struggling with..it's a weird time of my life to be out gal'ing) but I think you are leaving out the implied..sometimes spelled out directly, tho...corrollary which is: State your needs often and be willing to express when they are and are not being met. Communicate, sometimes bluntly. Be willing to hold your spouse to their word.
IOW, you have to do all the other stuff--be a good spouse, meet her needs, be an interesting person who has their own life, but you also have to be willing to GET IN HER FACE. Realistically, change is not going to occur if you avoid conflict and do all these great things to yourself and hope that she will do the same. I guarantee she will change, if she sees you doing the above, but it might not be the do-it-like-horny-rabbits change. It may just be that she views you differently. Or she has more respect for you.
These are in no way minor changes, either. I see it as a necessary part of the process...but that's not where the process ends.
Quote: Jen, following up with a bit more of the "how".
Stop spending thought and energy avoiding your husband, thinking negatively about sex, listing out all the ways he irritates you - in other words, whatever negative input you run through your head regarding your husband and sex needs to be expurgiated.
Start replacing those negative recurring thoughts with good thoughts about your husband.
Start listing out and thinking of those characteristics you admire about him. Or those things you know are admirable, whether or not you currently admire him for them.
Hard working, good father, protective, intelligent, sensitive, funny, generous, quick wit, a leader, quick to forgive, knowledgeable, eager, thoughtful, etc. Add the things he has ever done in your relationship, think upon the things he just did yesterday, last week, etc.
Start replacing the entrenched negative thoughts with the positive ones. In the same way that your negative thoughts have been creeping out into to attitudes and behaviors toward your husband, the positive ones will begin to change your interactions with him.
And if you want to make it even better, start expressing those things to him verbally.
I wanted to point out that this advice goes either way--we all do this 'jump to negative conclusions' to each other, not just the LD.
MrsNOP, One thing I've always wondered about was this:
How well did NOPkins do at meeting your needs? Was it a stop/start process like the sex was? Were there times when he just sucked rotten eggs and you had to put up with his bad attitude?
Does he make it a point, as you do, to meet this need on a weekly basis?
I realize this is not the forum to be concentrating on a need for recreational companionship but it really is relevant.
I guess I am not asking "does he reciprocate" but more asking, Was the process of him meeting your needs a similar one with bumpy parts and awkward moments, or was it smoother?
My own answer to that is that it was quite similar to the sexual process--it was definitely a learned skill that I had to cultivate. I still have realllly good moments and ones where I'm barely tolerant but I work at it all the time.
Here is where I'm currently at with it: I am a damn fine partner to him in this regard but I rarely initiate the religious convos on my own. I *have* to start doing this! What a meaningful thing that would be to him. I need a Corri Angel sitting on my shoulder reminding me in her subtle ways (lol) to do this.
MrsNOP, I would define this as "the higher-desire spouse, rather than nagging, or being needy/grabby, or being grouchy/irritable, or even just moping in quiet resentment, instead embarks on a "GAL" program of hobbies, self-improvement, and finds their contentment and humor again. They add muscle, lose fat, engage in rewarding hobbies apart from the lower-desire spouse, while treating them with respect and compassion and being as good of a friend and a parent to their children as they can be. And they continue to speak to their lower-desire spouse in the love languages that they know they need, even though it's not leading to them speaking in yours."
That.
Show me where one spouse does THAT, and it leads to these "and the other spouse will (supposedly) have to change" stuff.
Cuz I just don't see it. And I really do want to see it!
Choc.
You know, NOP didn't do most of those things.
That's right.
No get a life routine. No new hobbies. No put on a happy face routine.
He had always been a good parent, and our relationship had by and large been respectful. He had always had his strong interests and hobbies. He did, prior to the 2-year issue marathon, do things about the house, bought flowers and gifts. But, since there had been no discussion about what was occuring, these activities barely registered with me.
See, what I see missing in your list is this:
"Honey, this is an issue that is important to me. So important that I am not willing to ignore it, squelch it, pretend it doesn't exist, act as if everything in our marriage is acceptable to me. I will be the best spouse I know to be and if there are behaviors of mine that you dislike, please let me know what they are. If there are things you wish I would do, please let me know what they are. I am willing to make whatever effort is necessary to make love to my spouse in a regular fashion. I want to work with you on this issue. But, it is not going to go away, I am willing to fight for it. We absolutely have to work out some resolution and I want to do that with you. I am telling you that I have my limitations, and one of those limitation is living without sex with my spouse. I have tried to accommodate living in a sexless marriage, but I can no longer do that. Will you work with me on this issue? I hope that you will. Because I am telling you that it is not going to go away."
See, you may dislike it immensely. You may find it insulting or degrading or distasteful that you have to fight or struggle for this issue in your marriage. But, that's what I keep seeing that is missing - except for several of the HD women posting here. HP is where she is because I don't think there was a week that went by that she wasn't addressing the issue in some way. That's what happened with us. I'm not talking every once in a while. I'm talking that this issue was there in front of us pretty much on a daily basis.
You *have* to stop acting like everything is okay. As long as your LD spouse sees that you are willing to keep squelching what you want, they'll continue letting you.
Yes, MrsNOP, staying on the topic is often for the best. B surely you can understand why some of the LD S on this board are reluctant to do that because, as in my case, I think some of my "staying on the topic" led to H leaving. In the end, however, it was for the best. He needed to be removed from the situation to see if it was something he really wanted to work on. When he came back, he knew it was with this understanding: the M will have a fulfilling SL or no go. Risky but worth it.
I didn't have an epiphany. I was, at best, a very reluctant partner. We argued more in those 2 years than in the 25 that proceeded it. As those 2 years progressed, what NOP made clear was *this issue was not going to go away*.
That's precisely what depresses the hell out of me.
Why? The ongoing conflict? There was no way that we were going to clear out a decade and more of the detritus that had accummulated in our marriage. There absolutely wasn't going to be a couple of nice, peaceful conversations that were going to get us where we needed to go. There wasn't going to be a single incident of temporary emotional connection that was going to fuel our journey out of the pit in which we found ourselves.
Choc, it's not going to happen that easy.
Quote: I can't speak for everyone else, for speaking for myself (and for CeMar's sitch, which started this whole latest back-and-forth), I'm not looking for a "natural-born" LD to come out of her shell. I'm looking for a woman who was always HD (more than me, actually), to come back to me. I know she's in there, so I really don't feel like I'm asking her to be something that she's not, kwim? But I do, more broadly, understand your point here.
You must realize that people change. Women's sexual drives can peter out. Almost all women have that first couple of years in the relationship thing, where their drives are higher. This also explains why LD women can leave a sexually unhappy relationship and go great guns sexually in a new one. (See Mariposa's posts) A true HD woman is going to want to be sexual even if the relationship isn't all hunky-dorry.
At what point in your marriage did your wife's sex drive disappear? Did she initiate more than you did?
This all sounds so clinical, a womens sex drive just peters out. So how is this women supposed to show love? How can a relationship exist where only one actully shows desire for the other. A LD women gets TONS of desire, while the man gets NOTHING. Meaningful love can ONLY be shown in the way that a spouse wants to receive it. So without desire, there is no meaningful love being displayed. At best, the love given by a LD is like brother sister love, which will cause massive resentment when it is supposed to be LOVERS type love.
Is it possible to love someone as your lover and not desire them, I can't imagine how this could be possible, and yet this is what we are supposed to believe?
In theory, most of the things that you describe are good things to do. The one problem I have with the "GAL" routine, is that effectively, the "GAL" routine is trying to make a HD into a LD. Everything in the "GAL" routine is intended to steer away from sex, in effect, to become LD. This would be wonderful if you are LD, but we are not. What is happening is that the LD spouse is tired of being the source of our happiness, so they want us to be able to take care of our own needs more. So what does "GAL" really mean then? The only way for a HD to "GAL" is to actually CHEAT on our spouses. People that "CHEAT" on their spouses are essentially "Getting a life". Afterall, what is the point of life if you have no lover? Jobs, career, hobbies, friends, and yes even family are secondary focuses in life, the primary focus is ALWAYS the love of your life (at least fo many HD's). I suspect for many LD's this is NOT true.
No Cemar, the point to GAL is to make yourself more attractive to your mate. GAL makes you more confident, more interesting and less needy. It isn't about diverting yourself.
