Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Drop the Rope VII

ya, I feel like I have completely unraveled.

Zephyr,

It is amazing what you just wrote. It prompted a realization in me, about my own M. It goes hand in hand with my experience from last night (see my "unstuck" thread)

My xW has said much of what you wrote above. But here is the sad part, she had it backward. The way she felt about herself is the way she treated me.

She complained I didn't help her and she was a servant, while she sat on the couch and played on her phone, worked very little, interacted with the children seldom.

She said I belittled her as she used sarcasm and defensiveness toward me when I voiced my needs (expectations?), while she contributed very little to our life.

She was cold about affection, to the point I told her I was giving up, she could show affection when she was ready. Strangely her level of affection stayed the same, almost improved.

Her selfishness was always too of her list, and said we only did what I wanted to do. Now that we are apart she is trying to continue to do exactly the same things we did when together!

Her anger was ugly. Childish, sarcastic, making skewed faces, exaggerating behaviors.

Saying what I want to hear only to not follow through.

Compromise? She didn't know what that even meant.

Did you W project all of that onto you? To the point you believed it?

Have you listened to the Ross Rosenberg videos about codependents and narcissists? Listen to one, see if you project everything narcissistic onto yourself. Listen a few more times and think about if your W was projecting it onto you.

I don't think she projects that onto me. I'm pretty sure I've seen those videos. I will rematch them, with the context you list in mind.

to be honest. I don't believe my wife is a true narcissist. she certainly has traits, but all people do...do they act on them?

wife is certainly immature emotionally. I've seen growth from her in many ways and that is reassuring.

yesterday we talked about money. she had contemplates taking a side job tk earn extra cash to help with the debt thst has accrued with her college tuition payments and supplemental loans. she struggles with that vs. losing all of the time that she has started to find herself enjoying with family and herself. my wife makes a tremendous living...almost 40% of family income (and still growing) and we live a comfortable life.

I kept mostly quiet answering questions and validating her opinions. the outcome...she asked if we could sit down. amd revisit the budget to see if there is a way to actually NOT do the contract work so she can spend more time with us.

certainly. I left the decision up to her, encouraged it and she came up with rational plan.

just Wednesday, s14 asked if he could purchase a new video game...she asked which one...he tells us grand theft auto 5 and all his friends play. well we told him right out, we needed to discuss so no for now.

wife and I ended up going for a walk together and discussed. before that she had done some reading up...she didn't know much about the game. we talked for 1t minutes about the impact of thone sorts of games on development and also how in my mind they went against my core beliefs (sex with prostitute, murder, drug use...on and on).

we didn't get a chance to tell s14 the verdict. well yesterday she continued to do more research and ask other parent d about the game. when j was at work, she told s14 no. they went back and forth (as I understand from both of the them) calmly and respectfully. he was not happy buto he will get over it.

i have seen more clues of her maturation.

what does aLL this mean. nothing.

I know my life is not as bad as dumpster fire as I've made it to be.

I know that I came off a bit Lucille Ball yesterday with the 'whaaaaaaaaaaa' stuff.

I am trying to find anger and every time I do it fizzles. I have spent a good amount of time searching for it.

v's posts to try to get me angry at her...I couldn't summon that response at all which is kind of embarrassing. I just kept thinking....she called a spade a spade, why would I get mad about that.

I was mad at my mom and dad for a while. I ripped into them pretty good last fourth of July at my annual camp fire to tell theme how I felt about certain aspects of my up bringing. pretty sure I posted about that a bit before...if not I can type that up for you guys. I do know that since then mom and dad have really been making an effort towards each of my brothers and thier kids more. even old dogs can learn

no my big hole is yet to be filled. my love for myself....still a slow work.

forgiving myself. yesterday I went and looked in the mirror and repeated over and over....it was not your fault that mom and day didn't show the love and affection, the praise and reassurance to me that they should have, that i needed. That was not my fault.

V, i cried for a while after. wife called me shortly after that...as if she somehow knew I was struggling. she instantly sensed something wrong in me. I told her that I had a rough go at work. she tried to console me a bit. she didn't bring it up at all when I got home...in all fairness neither one of us sat down until almost 10 30 last night. I would like to share that with her, to let her know why I was upset, chance to show openness and vulnerability???

her folks are coming in for an action packed weekend. honestly just want to sit and relax. BUUUUT we have about 20 things we have invites for and are going to do about 6 of them, all necessities...still pretty busy.

have to start getting ready for work. otherwise I would type blippy-blop nonsense all day.

thanks for helping me get this out.

I'll quickly chip in. I wanted to reply when v wrote but out of respect for what she is trying to do and to give you a chance to reach your response uninfluenced I held off.

I did not think what she wrote would have vexed you. Think deeply on this, but if you have come to a solid thinking about what she wrote and it resonates as being true for you, then accept your conclusion.If not chip away until you find your truth. But do not apologise for nit providing what you think someone expects of you.

You mentioned being unravelled.HHow are you going to put yourself back together? That is what you should figure out IMO.

You wrote the word hate a lot in your reply. That is a strong word. Is there anger behind it?

The good news is most of what you dislike seems to stem from you. That means you can control it and change it. Go for it.

The speaking in the mirror can be a great tool. You see and hear someone telling you what you need to hear. You can look yourself in the eyes and say "I love you" or whatever message you need to hear. Avoid at all costs being negative in front of a mirror.

Finally you are right to see and acknowledge the growth in your W. She has made great progress too.

As Arnie says "I'll be back"

saw this Meme today...had to post it. hit close to home:

"As I was fighting for you, I realized I was fighting to be lied to; fighting to be taken for granted; fighting to be disappointed; and fighting to be hurt again…so I started fighting to let go."

There was no acknowledgement of who wrote it...but found it on the 'my waffles are cold' facebook page. I read virtually all of the articles on that page.

I acknowledge the FOO info you have typed. I will discuss with IC and do a more in depth review, I just know that this forum is not the place for an all encompassing history and analysis. your focused info has helped me doing more searching and thinking about it than I ever would have.

You know where to message the dancing accountant and her tribe if you do. There is more than just V in the enclave. There are resources which I can't mention without going back on moderation.



I think this summarizes my whole struggle V. What boundaries SHOULD I have that I have not already implemented, that will allow me to be me...that will allow me to freely live the life I want to. we all know why I haven't installed those boundaries yet...weakness.

I have read more and more and more and recognize more every day, those behaviors of others, that I have allowed to dictate my actions, allowed to control me, allowed to diminish me.

I am glad you see that tendency. I would like Zephyr to be clear in expressing his displeasure. I don't like this! and really? And can you repeat that please? Are three of my go to sayings. They usually get a back track or apology. Along with: did I hear you correctly?

even as I have felt much less attached to wife, I am still allowing my desire to be wanted and loved from her to dictate some reactions. there is a change in so far as I do not react to fix her or rush in to help like I once did, or try to make a mends for something that I didn't do, or take offense / react when she is venting about things that went wrong or about others.

Good

The desire to be wanted and loved IS still very strong for me, that I have ACCEPTED less than I should, worse I have allowed poor treatment. Using compassion for her, as an excuse for her...how is that actually helping her or me. it is only enabling her behavior.

Yes, indeed, absolutely. Cognitive dissonance using rationalisation to bridge the gap. It serves you otherwise this would not be something that you do. It has a purpose for you. What is it?

why has it seemed like things are 'better' in my house. no more raging at me, or outburst of anger or belittling me like she used to...it is much clearer now, because she doesn't have to. she has found that withholding affection or parsing it out in tiny little bits is waaaaaaay more effective in controlling me.

Your choice to be controlled Zephyr. Now you can observe it, you have more choices. Kindness to yourself is key in this. You can learn to self soothe so the need for another to provide this function. It's one of the key adult skills. Self soothing.

Ineffective / nonexistent boundaries and holding on too tight...is that all I need to fix?

Yes and expectation. When typing my responses I went backwards.


I hate that I live my life without being able to express emotions because, I am overreacting.

I would like a bigger explanation

I hate that I live my life not being able to share love or express love without some form of rejection

Now that is a choice, your choice. You have the right to express love, just because you have done so they are under no obligation. Your choice to love, yours to express it and others have no obligation to respond.

I hate that I feel like my needs are always trivialized, especially when I express them

The boundary here is your needs trivialisedoing not validated. No one has to meet another's needs, that is childish demand territory. But diminishing their feelings and needs, their right to them is quite another.
That my lovely Zephyr is a boundary.

I hate that I live in a marriage that I am taken for granted

And you would hate it if you weren't.

I hate that I am not shown as an equal, that each doing their share is not even a thing.

Share doesn't have to be equal, consider value and worth. Some things are worth more than others. For instance I have a friend I share with. Once recently I went with her for a breast exam, she was worried and I held her hand. That gesture she tells me meant more than months of girl chats, but it was 10 minutes.

I hate that when I get a sense that I am being lied to, I have no recourse.

The recourse is straight forward disbelief.

I am typing these things, because once I say it, I can't unsay it.

well that was not the response I was thinking of when I sat down to type.

You give the answers you want to give that are right for you and that's ok.


Sorry if it is not the type of response you were looking for from me V. I kinda needed to type it though...so thank you for prompting me

Then it's done it's job.

((((Vanilla))))

Try googling lean to self soothe calming the amygdala.

This is high emotional sensitivity.

I mentioned it before and trapped feelings.

I am even more convinced of it.

V

I guess where I was going with this was my frustration over the years where when i had an opinion or felt a certain way about something, wife would minimize that with arguing it's validity or how important it was or if it was an overreaction to something.

since I typed this. wife and I somehow got into a conversation about this exact topic, she was talking about her parents and how annoying it was to her that both her parents basically disregarded or flat out argued with the others point of view, constantly...no matter what they were talking about.

I agreed that I though it was so very uncomfortable to listen to them all last weekend. she said something to the affect of she didn't understand why.

i said that it is not limited to just your folks. I have seen it with my folks, in laws families, my families, brothers sisters, work etc. I gave specific examples. Basically it amounted to the lack of respect for others opinions not only to be heard but validated. each of those examples, the person who was listening gave counter argument and other became defensive and boom. downward spiral.

I gave her a few specific examples with me and my mom and with work, Pre-validation, accepting that they have a right to have thier opinion and then validating it. if a counter was necessary I would do so but mostly not, because sure the sky could be orange to them...who am I to say it isn't

anyway, it was an odd conversation. I didn't go into explicit details on websites or anything, or give the catch words, just examples of how I interacted and she seemed to get what I was saying.

so we were ready to go to the gym and i left it at that. we will see if it sunk in

self soothing, I've gone through some excercising back when I was trying to work on the whole anxiety to the point of not functioning. I will revisit that with the goal of releasing feeling. I did some googling on that last night.

thank you, as always

mark