Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers WAS or what (recap for me)

Post 1 sept 15

Although here I tend to talk about the crap side of things, I have still been working on the positive, as laid out at the start of thus thread. To help my focus I am going to post now my goals and actions for the next few weeks.

1 Relationship
Although not out of shape, I want to tone up and be mire physically attractive. So at least once a week I will dedicate time to this.. I put this under R as it will help with any future R.

2 Dad
I aim to get home early enough once per week to help boys with homework, plus at weekend.
Plan specific activities with both sons individually and together.
Read and learn how to be a better dad, not necessarily a fun dad. I want to have fun with them but foremost be their dad.
Weather and time permitting I may organise a camping weekend with the boys in Sept.

3 GAL
Join a club /activity in September and then go at least weekly.
Do sport at least three times a week , at least one of which with others.
Book trip home to friends wedding w/wo W.
Spend less time on couch. Only be on couch if doing something or watching something I really want to watch.

4 Friends
Be more social. Meetup with at least one friend each week.
Make new friends (hopefully in club) and specifically not in dame social circle as W or current friends.
Contact at least one distant friend per week

5 W
Decide if want to implement any of the options outlined recently. I'll analyse them again, but not sure there are any good options. But I am not afraid to do whatever I decide even if it pushes W away. Maybe I actually should push her away in a DB way.
Improve validating. I will reread validating thread and validate at any opportunity.
Make list of signs of improvement that I would like to see. Small step signs and not long term goals.
Show appreciation at all occasions to W and show love in the 5ll ESP acts of service

6 Me
Sleep better. Re evaluate after increase in sport and take natural based medication if needed.
Work. Stay focused at work.
Be more decisive.
Ask W to teach me to dance (rock n roll). I would like to do this before friends wedding, (esp if she comes but not only). Will also be good for any future R.

7 House.
Tidy my desk and keep it tidy
Tidy basement, including gym area and keep them functional.
Restart work on boys bathroom and finish it this year.
Finish painting cabin in garden for boys. Rain prevented that being ticked off before holiday
Write down my to-do list around the house and start ticking them off as done.

8 Plan B
Seeing how I am struggling with current situation and w too I think, it is time to prepare a plan B or at least figure out what I want to happen if we separate. First step is getting better informed and clearer on all options etc.

Post 1 sept 15

Although here I tend to talk about the crap side of things, I have still been working on the positive, as laid out at the start of thus thread. To help my focus I am going to post now my goals and actions for the next few weeks.

1 Relationship
Although not out of shape, I want to tone up and be mire physically attractive. So at least once a week I will dedicate time to this.. I put this under R as it will help with any future R.

2 Dad
I aim to get home early enough once per week to help boys with homework, plus at weekend.
Plan specific activities with both sons individually and together.
Read and learn how to be a better dad, not necessarily a fun dad. I want to have fun with them but foremost be their dad.
Weather and time permitting I may organise a camping weekend with the boys in Sept.

3 GAL
Join a club /activity in September and then go at least weekly.
Do sport at least three times a week , at least one of which with others.
Book trip home to friends wedding w/wo W.
Spend less time on couch. Only be on couch if doing something or watching something I really want to watch.

4 Friends
Be more social. Meetup with at least one friend each week.
Make new friends (hopefully in club) and specifically not in dame social circle as W or current friends.
Contact at least one distant friend per week

5 W
Decide if want to implement any of the options outlined recently. I'll analyse them again, but not sure there are any good options. But I am not afraid to do whatever I decide even if it pushes W away. Maybe I actually should push her away in a DB way.
Improve validating. I will reread validating thread and validate at any opportunity.
Make list of signs of improvement that I would like to see. Small step signs and not long term goals.
Show appreciation at all occasions to W and show love in the 5ll ESP acts of service

6 Me
Sleep better. Re evaluate after increase in sport and take natural based medication if needed.
Work. Stay focused at work.
Be more decisive.
Ask W to teach me to dance (rock n roll). I would like to do this before friends wedding, (esp if she comes but not only). Will also be good for any future R.

7 House.
Tidy my desk and keep it tidy
Tidy basement, including gym area and keep them functional.
Restart work on boys bathroom and finish it this year.
Finish painting cabin in garden for boys. Rain prevented that being ticked off before holiday
Write down my to-do list around the house and start ticking them off as done.

8 Plan B
Seeing how I am struggling with current situation and w too I think, it is time to prepare a plan B or at least figure out what I want to happen if we separate. First step is getting better informed and clearer on all options etc.

Post by Azzork 14 sept 2015

Roiste -
Thanks for posting in my thread. This all looks really good. Id advise you to line up your accomplishments with your goals to see where you are succeeding and where you still have gaps. That can give you some focus going forward into the next few weeks.

Ill spend some time at some point going back through your threads to really understand your situation. As far as I can tell, you are still together with no BD, but you are sensing some distance. You many read the thread from SpinningJenny - shes been doing a lot of work in setting goals on how to try to re-engage her H still living at home with no BD. While your goals are good and focused on you, I think you may want to consider how you interact with your W, and see if there may be some subtle changes you can make that may change her responses to you.




Post by azzork 17 sept 15

Originally Posted By: roiste
As I approach one year of really REALLY trying to do whatever it takes to save M, I seem to be exactly where I was last year.


I posted/asked this to SJ this morning. I was recommended to keep a positivity journal of my interactions with W or her actions. Do you have something like that? Its easy to say "nothing has changed" but without actually looking at data, its difficult to ACTUALLY judge whether thats true.

Post by Zephyr 15 oct 15
Roiste, you have taken a lot of courage to keep up fighting doe your marriage. It is more than commendable, it is in my mind a heroic action for what your heart has gone through.

Now fo4 your questions...I think I types something about gifts, small & heartfelt is just fine as long as you genuinely believe of will not move the needle. You are still in love with her. It is still your anniversary to a marriage you are still believing in.

My opinion on limbo, you already know. I think that limbo has taken its toll on you and I just like a bomb drop, but without the certainty.

Why can you not just move forward with your life despite her not saying that she needs a separation or divorce? Why can't you treat yourself like a superstar and still live in the same house. Why can't you get out and enjoy your life despite being in a marriage that your spouse is not actively meeting your needs.

Ultimately that is up to you what you want to do. Is sex the end all thing that you just no longer can do without? Is affectionate desire or caretaking something you cannot move foreword without...if so you should find out what can you do instead.

We have been holding onto that rope so tightly for ever. They feel it like a noose. Even if you aren't telling her what to do and trying not to control her, they still feel your holding on so tightly that it is effectively still control. It affects our behaviours and our moods.

What if you just let go and I mean, really really let go. Have you tried to imagine what that would look like? Roiste out having a good time and being happy without worrying about his marriage. I am not worried about you not meeting your obligations, I know you will continue to do that because of the man you are.

I am talking about no longer enabling her depression or whatever it is with your attention and your hyper-caring. She will need to figure this out on her own. At this point you've sat by her side and held her hand while you keep putting hope that she will come around. She hasnt been able to. They have been so constrained in thierbown heads and they feel that we are what is holding them back. Holding onto that rope is more of the same to them.

So many people say hope is a good thing...hope though does not give us the opportunity to see the future, it has clouded the possibility for any outcome besides a happy reconciliation and a wonderful marriage with your wife when she comes around. I do think that some hope is ok, but my gut tells me that your vision through hopefulness sees you two side by side forever. I am the same.

Let go. It is easier said than done. I know. I have been holding this rope for so long and so tightly because I believed this will pass, that my love and generosity and blah blah would make a difference. That no matter what I believed love will overcome. I am a dope. Just let go and start working towards your happiness and let's see what will happen.

I actually just meant to type a hi and I am supporting you but a purge ensued.
I hope that I am not coming off as a hypocritical because this where I am too. I am right where you are and I am still trying to figire out why I have been unablebto just start walking. I thought I had more than a few times, but I guess I was just lying to myself and have not truly me go. Why? do we need wife to actually leave for that to hqopen...I hope not.

Sending you my hope for a better future, you are worth it!!!

Posted 22 oct 15

Yesterday Caliguy wrote on another thread about something that helped him become version 2.0. I am going to give it a try. Wanted to record it here before I forget it.

Basically you write three lists:
1) five things you like about yourself
2) five things you don't like about yourself
3) five things are attractive in a man/five things in an idealyou. Not sure exactly how it was phrased.

Then you put together goals and plans to work to replace something from the second list with something from the third list.

Posted by Rouky 25 oct 2015

Women love to talk. Start by small talk, we love when we are asked about how our day went as it shows that our partner cares about us!

Posted by Zephy 26 oct 2015

Originally Posted By: roiste
I feel weak and doubt I could stand that long. But I'm still standing so who knows.
Thanks DB friends


You can do whatever you set your mind to, this I know from all I've read from you. I am confident in this.

As far as the timeline...none can say how long this will truly take, I know I didn't start seeing a change in her mindset towards me and our marriage fo4 three years of intimacy starvation. You could be a long ways still. This is why we need to learn how to love ourselves and start meeting our own deepest needs for appreciation , etc. Sprinkle in a little spoiling ourselves with that too, ok.

Maybe this could have gone faster if I would have found this site earlier, IDK. What it WoOULd have done, I would have started down the path for me to heal sooner...that is a certainty. She still needed to find her way.

One day and one step!

Posted by Zephyr 29 oct 2015


I didn't think you were working towards NC: I thought that - your wife has not filed for divorce, you are living in the same house, you are working to strengthen your relationship with your wife, your 180 was be more open and honest with her, your goal is to have a more beneficial / complete relationship with your wife.

I think that we all see what is written on this site as the end-all process. You and I and a few more are certainly in a different category (maybe) than many who seek help here. We are not straddled with a battle with a woman who is clamoring to get out. Your wife has no idea what she wants or needs right now. I went through this exact same internal struggle bunches of weeks ago.

does your wife need space to make up her mind. YES
does your wife need the opportunity chose her path. YES
does your ignore or fight with you every time you open your mouth - NO, right?
She does not need someone to tell her how she feels. She does not need someone to push her. she does not need a father.

She could use a friend right now. It is the last place you want to be, I know...that place between a lover and a stranger. Listening to so many of the veterans and the discussions from DB Coaches, that is precisely the location that you have to be for this to work.

You are working to rebuild a foundation. That foundation cannot be a physical one like when we were kids starting out with a fresh love and relationship. That is not an option with you and your wife. If you are not going to fill this need of friendship, companionship or confidant then who will? there are others who would be willing to stand in for that position, I assure you of that, we both know what the implications there are. He is not the problem. He should not be occupying any more of your mind right now, he's not paying rent so don't give him the space. The problems are and have always been between you and wife. He may be a scumbag or a $hit head, or even a pleasant guy...who cares...he is not important to your life.

I am not trying to tell you what to do. I have made more mistakes in this, than anyone I'll bet. The whole while though, I have been true to me and compassionate for my marriage and wife. I have to be true to myself with boundaries that I will not allow myself to be hurt by her actions or the actions of anyone else. I will not be disrespected and that has been made clear. I have to be strong for my family, confident for my development as a man, and make myself truly a man a woman would be a fool to leave. I have to lead whenever possible, to show not only how I am willing to treat me wife for my children’s sake, but how I want to be treated as well.

My wife may not be willing to jump into bed with me right now. For countless reasons - she hates her body, she felt used for sex for years, she should want sex for her and not as a duty to me, she felt controlled into it, because she is mad at me about the whole friend thing, THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF REASONS. We can't make her want us right now.

Through all of this struggle till now, she texts me, she calls me, sits with me and is willing to talk more now than she has in a long time. I went through years of her wanting nothing to do with me. She now shows me affection in other ways - even a little physical (I've gotten some of the best, sensual kisses this last week than I've gotten in a decade). She has been supportive and demanding of respect ON MY BEHALF from my children. Helping more around the house, etc. It is taking time, a lot longer because I’ve made my share of mistakes, was holding on too tight, just expected things to get better – and oh ya she is a stubborn-assed irish woman, who holds resentment like it was gold.

We are building a new marriage out of the ashes of our old one. There needs to be a time from you to understand that maybe she needs someone to think of her for more than just a physical outlet from him. I realize that this may sound like a contradiction because so many women who actually break, go out and have an affair, I don't think that it starts out with them wanting to get laid. I think they have a need to feel like they are needed, useful, appreciated, worthy of intelligent conversation, respected for all they are, they need to be HEARD and UNDERSTOOD (that is my #1 failing all through my marriage - I've written at length about that and I have been working to fix that part of me).

Truth is we are finally starting to have fun together as a couple and as a family and hopefully building a future together. She deserves love and respect from me. How we showed our affection all those years was not the same as she wanted, this we now know. This is where all of the learning about love and love languages and how men and women differ starts to really come into play. And yes, eventually she will need to learn to understand how we would like to have my needs met too.

So what is she missing that you can provide her, while still giving your wife the time and space to explore who she is and what she has become, where she wants to be? What behaviors can you introduce into your relationship, where you do not compromise who you are and still show understanding and compassion for her and not pressure your wife? This is will allow a stronger relationship to blossom. I am not talking about catering. I am not talking about YOU stopping going out and doing your GAL, or living your life for you. This still needs to happen for your development and for you to help give her space.

From what I’ve read, finances are a big thing for you guys right now. Is there a way you can have more conversations where you listen more than talk, validate, ask her opinions, etc. You have gone through a long soul-search for your business, how much of that process involved your wife....as it sits right now that is still her livelihood too? I realize that it is your career, but unilateral decisions are just not going to cut it here. Her opinion should be heard in all of this.

The physical needs of a man cannot be understated, I know. I have actually had to say to myself...So let me get this straight, you are willing to leave your wife, soul-mate, companion and best friend, solely because she does not provide the physical affection and satisfaction that I need right now? Isn't that the crux of the problem here. We have called it a half-of-a-marriage, and I have heard this over and over again (hell I've said it how many times).

From a fundamental perspective, what does that tell my wife (even if I’ve never said it, I’ve felt it and that translates into pressure)...that I am willing to walk away from our life together because you will not have sex with me, even though she needs that space to figure herself out...that her needs right now mean less than mine, that her trying to work on herself is not good enough or fast enough. That is not an easy commentary to take on.

It comes down to this for me, is this woman worth it? PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION. Is she or isn’t she.

That is the decision that we all need to make. Not is this part good enough or not, ALL or NOTHING.

I will go back to something that Cadet typed my first couple of posts, what is she was in an accident, maybe there was a different context than this, but allow me to explain. If my wife had cancer and was unable to have sex with me for the next 3 years for whatever reason, would I leave? What if she were to be injured to the point she could never be able to meet my needs like that again? Would I leave? My answer is no. To think that she is punishing me or that this is a conscious choice is very short sighted on my part and have needed to really read so many women’s posts of their MLC / WAW / WHATEVER issues where they could not be touched by their husband to really START to understand the hell that they are going through with this. Mix in the possibility of things that have happened in their pasts that we may not be aware of or have not considered through this ordeal and their struggle begins to make more and more sense when we are told, ‘It has nothing to do with us.”

IDK, maybe I am back to bargaining again in my head. Maybe I've missed to boat for an iceberg. Maybe I am just phucking nuts.

All I know is that for the first time since I've gotten here, and really for the first time in my life, I feel like I am beginning to understand what Love is truly about. I understand what compassion and giving is imperative. Vulnerability is necessary to be able to love. We have to be receptive to be able to allow someone to love us. We have to allow ourselves the possibility of loss to truly love freely. Basically I lived my whole childhood learning how not to love, uugh.

I feel like I have not been fair to my wife with expectations that she should be ML to me simply because that is what I need right now. She can't and that is on her. She knows that I would love to have sex, but I certainly don't need to pressure her for that. All I know is that I owe it to myself to really focus on me and part of that is giving. Sounds stupid, but that is what I want to do. I am no longer depriving myself of things I want to do, quite the contrary…I’m planning nights out, I am working on hobbies and basement when I can, contributing to the community, finishing projects, I haven’t done a load of dishes in my house in two weeks (can I say Hell-YA and I don’t care to). I am doing my share, probably more than I should, but for now it is improvement and I don’t feel like I am being taken advantage of.

I spend so much of my free time with the kids playing games, coaching and helping with homework (even doing the holiday party at S10 class tomorrow). Point is I am living for me, giving her space and time to make her choices and do her thing – all the while showing her that I value her for all that she is.

Um, so wordier than I wanted, yikes. Sorry for such a long-winded post, I guess I needed to get that out.

I really am starting to like the path that I’ve forged. I know it is the right path for me. Where it leads we will see.

I still have hope. I still have faith. I still have me.

Posted by Zephyr 4 nov 2015

The present, even if unromantically given was just that a gift. It was after all your anniversary and she did not all put ignore it. That is a good thing.

I remember one anniversary a couple years back where wife not only ignored it, she went out of town despite the 15 years. Yay...that was fun.

I hope you were pleasant and accepting the gift?

Do nothing is not really do nothing, you know that. Have you gone over to the Mlc forums and read some of the homework on that threead? There are tons of great resources to read (and yes I've read all the EA info I could as well). Read everything you can by job, heartsbleasing, cadet, 25mlc, wonka, Jack 3 beans, lostforwords...there are countless others.

You will see so many similarities with those threads in that forum with yours and mine. You will see how easy it is to get stuck and churn for too long. The ones who are able to get through this are the ones who embrace the challenge and start to reality get out there.

Your goals all look good. The biggest hole I have seen is you getting out and doing for roiste. Honestly it will help. I can feel the anxious and anxiety creeping back in when I get into a 'not doing enough for me' lull.

Feeling anxious and thinking you need to do aomething, that is a sign of needing to control. It is a sign that we are still too enmeshed with our spouse and too tied Up in the outcome of this journey. This is the real struggle with men like you and i, learning how to let go of it and learning to live for today.

We have planned and planned to make sure we have made a good future. We have worked out a$$es off to make sure our families are comfortable...then this whole mess hits and we have no control over it.

Honestly try to think of a day in the last year where you have not tried to figure a way for this to work out. Try to remember not thinking of how, whatever you are going todo, will affect your wife and marriage. I will bet there were a few days and on those days I would eager a handsome sum that you actually enjoyed yourself and if wife was there I would also expected that she enjoyed the time too.

She can feel the pressure. I think it was sandi who has said that the waW has a sixth sense for this...and I think it is right. It is like our sixth sense when we KNOW something is off with wife.

Again I am typing to much and need to get boys up for school.

What I am getting at with today's ramblings...you feel like you've tried everything. Have you tried to live for todsy, live for the moment ? There are tons of resources you can be reading on THAT instead of EA's. It is the one thing you can control, you and your happiness.

Stand tall, be proud of your growth and your love and dedicatuin for your family. Now look at you and actually tell yourself that YOU love YOU...no kidding, try and prove it today, really prove to yourself that it is true. One step is all it takes.

Posted by Zephyr 20 nov 2015

Originally Posted By: roiste
Plus I fully understand that the issue isbetween me and W.

I really need help today.


so you know where I am on this, you don't need me to post a novella, I just have a couple of questions to ponder...

What IS the fundamental issue then (from HER perspective, I know yours)?

What has been missing in your R with wife that she needs to talk to someone else?

What can you do to improve on THAT or to infuse some of what she is missing into your R!!!

Mark

And I am sorry about the focus at work, I wish I had any semblance of an answer for you there...I am the worst