Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers WAS or what (recap for me)

Post by zephyr 11 june 15

Although the dynamics of you situation are not as 'complicated' as some of the others here, it doesn't make your journey any less difficult. In some respects, the lack of definitive direction of your status is nowhere near easy to deal with. First and foremost...the struggle to make ourselves a better man is the same whether our wives are actively involved in an open affair or if they are not.

Your wife is still at home. Who knows what reasons, but there is a truth that I want you to understand here...you have time, but lets not waste it. You have an opportunity that many others do not have, and that is to work on yourself and continue to enjoy your family.

First things first, you need to make sure you are giving your wife the space she needs, no pressuring her, no pursuing her. This will help two fold...she needs that space to not feel trapped in this marriage any more & you need the space to help you with your attachment with her.

When you are interacting with your wife, are you listening to what she is saying...letting her speak and then validating her thoughts, keeping short replies, not trying to control her with advice (she may not want your advice right now).

When you are at home, you don't necessarily need to give her a wide berth or avoid any contact / communications with her, this actually might be making things harder. Woman needs someone to talk to (not to tell her what to do). You can be that man if she needs to listen. ask her about her day and actually give a $hit enough to listen to the response.

I am only saying this because I am getting a sense that is what you are not doing (could be wrong and just ignore me if that is the case - maybe even ask Cadet to delete this posting if I am out of line or off base).

The 37 rules are awesome for us to give our wives space and help us to detach emotionally from our wives. Nowhere in there does it say don't talk to wife or don't be kind or considerate or affectionate in any way. It is a very intricate way of reminding us that this person you are trying to reach out to is not particularly fond of you right now, lets not get in their face right now, lets ease up and let them be themselves. YOU BOTH NEED SPACE TO GROW.

As long as you are working on you, Getting OUT and trying to have a good time...finding yourself again and being (a) POSITIVE (b) KIND (c) STRONG (d) Leading by example (e)Considerate; (this works at home, school, out at restaurants, the office - everywhere BTW, not just for your wife...this is a great blueprint for interactions with everyone).

I cannot preface the WORKING ON YOU FIRST AND FOREMOST part enough though...nothing you do will matter with your spouse until you are moving forward. How many of the wives that we are here to reconnect with see their husbands as boring, fuddy-duddy, unexciting, whatever, i'd bet the number is HUGE. How many say they find they have nothing to talk about anymore outside of the children. How many say that there is no spark. how many say they are no longer attracted to H anymore...GUESS what, all those things are byproducts of us not being that energetic person we once were. when we go out and find things to do, new hobbies, new friends, new goals, dreams...whatever...look at what happens.

WE are having fun (yes...this is our goal). But see what else is there, we now have something to talk about. we now are not boring sitting at home falling asleep with a beer next to us, because we are out having a good time. We are finding things new and exciting. new friends, new relationships. We are looking good (a few new clothes, new scent really made me feel better about myself - how crazy is that - crazy enough to work...my wife has commented no fewer than 30 times in the last couple of months how good I looked or how good I smelled...more than the last 10 years combined i'd bet).

The long-winded point is these behaviors are all attractive. This is only a bi-product of the most important thing, you finding out how to enjoy your life again. I know you seem like you are stuck in a rut. Who knows what is going on in your wife's head. I do know it will drive you to depression and ultimately drive your wife away if you continue this path...I KNOW I spend how many years doing this wrong.

Again, I am sorry if I am out of line, if I have misperceived what is going on right now...feel free to request that this gets deleted...it will not hurt my feelings at all. ALSO if there are any opinions that are contrary I implore you to hear them out. you know what is best for you and your family...the choices are all up to you.

I know you are limited with GAL, but there is always a way. ALWAYS. you should have read many of the stories of folks who have made the best of things with getting out and enjoying their lives. I promise you, you cannot lose in this...YOU will come out ahead if you do this. No guarantees on marriage, no expectations on the future, but you will come out ahead.

We are here for you, hoping the best!!!

Post by Zephyr 11 june 15
So I know I've posted that to you and for myself as well...the crumbs as we call them are important to understand as far as WHY they are coming to us.

Is the wife stringing us along with tiny crumbs trying to keep us hooked or is she trying to make a connection with you...because she is still there and deep down there is still something? that is for you to ultimately decide, but it does not have to be today.

It is a whole lot easier to see the difference between those things when you have REALLY started to detach yourself from her struggle, from her pain, from your enmeshment with her emotionally. I started to actually see loving gestures from my wife when I actually started making progress. Things she did clearly for me not to placate me or keep me hooked. With detachment is also easier to show loving gestures to her Without expectations from her or as a result of those gifts, acts, words, touches or what evers. That is the struggle of pursuit vs. showing love freely...it all kinda hinges on the same topic of you stopping the need for control over your wife, over your marriage, over your future.

If you have questions....blast away. someone smarter than me will be here to help YOU interpret or help with how to apply this to your situation, because although the particulars of the marriage conflict is different than most, your stuggle with who you are and how you are reacting is very similar to the rest of us.

Remember, the 37 rules are amazing, very succinct guidelines...the only real rule is to do what works and if it aint working try something else.

First things first ... Focusing on YOU, the rest will come.

Posted 17 june 15

You are mind reading.

It's because it's uncertain.

let it be uncertain.

Don't ask, you may confirm things for W. STFU.

Switch off, detach from the outcome.

Let it unfold

Another quote stolen elsewhere here. We often are so eager to know the outcome now and eliminate ambiguity and uncertainty. Pushing for certainty will most often result in pushing WAS away and towards being certain they want out.

[=25yearsmlc]June 2015

Originally Posted By: roiste
Great set of rules. They seem mostly to apply to LBS doing LRT. My situation is not yet there but potentially could get there.in such a case is the advice to follow all the rules anyway or can some be ignored to start with.


I disagree. I think a lot of them apply to any relationship in which one partner is heading out the door & the other wants the R to continue.

Pull back, get a grip and really dig deep within Yourself to see what, if anything needs changing IN YOU -

and follow most/all the rules til you have done YOUR work.

THEN you can reassess and decide if & when the LRT would need application but since it is THE LAST resort, by definition,

you'd do a whole lot of other approaches (see "rules") FIRST.

Make sense?

Post 24 june 15

I have thought hard about what I have been doing, what specific actions I have taken to improve me and my situation. I am sure that I am not remembering every thing I have done in the last six months, but I was surprised I haven't done more. Maybe a lot of my work has been to keep my head above water and not actually going somewhere. That being said you need the head above water

I listened to a lot of podcasts, u tube videos and read tons of websites about saving M etc. I even put podcasts on mp3 to listen to while working.

Here are some of my actions:
# GRUMPY. I was grumpy. Before I reacted a lot to many things by grumpy remarks or growling answers. More defensive than aggressive. A part from one or two slips, I now react positively and lightheartedly to the same situations. Sometimes I only manage to not react negatively but even that is an improvement.
# kids. I am less tolerant and maybe firmer with the boys. Unfortunstelybeing stressed I often interacted with them grufly or loadly. Anyone with kids has done that but looking back I did it constantly.since no matter how bad I am I try to only tract with love and understanding.and if I do raise my tone it is due to their behaviour and not my mood. I am now much more patient than before and more than my W.
# before I wasn't overly enthusiastic about doing anything. Now I want to do more and more.
# I didn't live the moment. I always was lost elsewhere in my thoughts.I still struggle with that due to M situation, but I actively try to live in the moment now. I am improving and this has greatly helped me when with my sobs.
# My GAL activities include sport (weights, fitness, running, cycling) and have entered an adventure race in two weeks time as a team of two with a friend.I have also rekindled friendships and widened slightly my social circle. There us room for improvement but I am going towards people more than ever. I hope to join a club (swimming/triathlon) later in the year. I also have been active with many projects around the house/garden.
# before I felt like an observer in my own life, and not a participant. My W mentioned something like that too a few months ago. I had the impression my W was pushing Mr out of doing stuff too or rather she wanted to handle it on her own. But I accept this is my problem and for me to solve. I am making good progress but have more to do.
# communication. This was always not a great skill of mine. I was often lacking when my W wanted to talk. It was not lack of interest. I was just bad at it and during depression even worse. After I snapped out of depression I was willing and able to communicate about anything. Reality hit in then. What my W needed before she didn't want from me now. Being an important issue I had put it as one of my goalsas per DR, but slackened off on it due to rules/advice here.
#Before I had gone cold due to feeling rejected. After my awakening I reinitiated touching. Eg when on couch I would have hand on her lap etc. For better or words I stopped this as it is pursuing. I am having doubts about that but will follow advice here. But it felt like I was let do it as opposed to any initiation by W.

I am hard on myself and have low self esteem. I realise this and am trying to improve it. But that does let me see my failings and my part in this story.

I'm sure there is more I could add, but hopefully that is enough for Mrb or anyone else to assess what I am doing. By even writing this helped me see that I am not doing everything I can. I think it is time to restart trying stuff to see what works.

Post by 2cents 25 june 15

Big list of things you have done! Are all of them for your sake? Unfortunately, even if you were the perfect person, your spouse might not appreciate it, or acknowledge it, yet. Keep doing the things you want for yourself, because you want to, and feel glad you made the effort.

As far as the inappropriate relationship, it's probably one of your hurdles. You'll get mixed messages about what to do about it. From personal experience, I think it will have to end for her to truly notice you. The quandary is what role can you take to seeing the end of this other relationship. I think probably not a lot. Other than continuing to offer her a better alternative in yourself.

Post by Cadet 30 june 15

The OM is just a prop in YOUR play, he is nothing other than someone who is there and accessible to your wife.
So confronting him is really a waste of time and energy and could possibly be fraught with other potential problems.
Originally Posted By: roiste

I am not afraid of confronting my W. And unless I have another convincing reason not to, I'll do so tonight. OK I propose to just state that I have thou about it and do not find it normal or appropriate what happened Saturday. night. Would you advise to go further and speak in general?


Whereas I do not fear bringing up the topic with W, I am unsure if it will help. I suppose short term it will push us a part more, but maybe with time she will respect it.


Any tips/advice about best approach? Anything to avoid?

I hope that you are detached enough that when she denies anything has happened you are not pulled into a fight and you can just walk away from the conversation.
Yes this is about winning the war not this battle.
I think you seem to know based on what you wrote above.

The point is, if things are going to get worse then it is only a matter of time anyways.

Basically you have a boundary that you will not be in a relationship with her if she is in a relationship with some one else.

I hope that is clear.

Post 1 july 15

Not knowing what way it would go or what the aftermath would be I sat down with my wife.


I stated clearly and calmly TWICE the boundary that there is no way I will be in a relationship with someone who is in another relationship. I stated that I was not accusing her nor was I saying I believed she was in another relationship, but I wanted to be clear. I did say that I was going to take my time to decide what I actually thought of the situation. I also said we would see if there were other developments. She said it was clear, assured there was nothing and would be nothing.

That is the short version. We chatted around it for half an hour . She never mentioned us so I didn't see the point in starting a R talk.

For once I am sure it was the right thing to do. No second guessing. View that there was no real confrontation or negative reaction, it has not had any immediate effect. EXCEPT that I brought up the subject, set my boundary and in doing that took back some power/control going forward.

Just after I went out to water the garden and unusually she followed me and did a little weeding.

No battle, no war, no bomb..........

Post by Zephyr 20 july 15

I am standing right next to you sir. This morning in was very wary if the doubt of my future. It really does come and go...but it is not a constant anymore.

Your approach is right on and you still have more courage and strength than many I see in the real world who are walking away becsuse it is too hard to stand and look at themselves and make those changes that need to be made.

So with that said...how do we determine what will make us happy. That is the ultimate question. How are you trying to figure THAT out Right now?

Post by Zephyr 4 aug 15

Years is definitely not unrealistic roiste. Whether we are together in our marriage or apart...it will take years for us to get to that place where we need to be to be truly happy.

Codependency, breaking through the fog, overcoming that WAS mindset of 'it is over', learning to trust each other once more...that will take a long time.

It sounds like you are doubting yourself. I am there sometimes, wanting to just say phuck it, maybe all of this is not worth it. I keep going back to the beginning and thinking how awesome life can be.

It is hard, it will be trying and taxing. It is going to push every limit you have, bit when you chose, you will know you've done Truely everything you could have and you can chose with a soft heart.

You are doing well!!!