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My WW was extremely angry. She actually told me, all she really wants to do is hurt me. This was before I learned about DB. This was preceded by 1/2 of her just saying things she knew would hurt me. When she said she just wanted to her hurt me I told her she could say anything she wants to me if it would make her happy or if it pleased her she could just start hitting me, I didn't care as long as she was here with me, I would be happy. Well of course that just made her angrier.

Since we have separated she still has some very emotional bouts of rage. She has threatened to withhold my kid and have me arrested for not giving her rings back.

Set your boundaries and stick to them. BTW when you do this if your WW is anything like mine she will get even angrier for a time but it does seem to lessen a bit after it flares. Read and reread the boundaries homework.

One of the things I've been learning is that any action I take regarding our MR with WW is always interpreted by WW as my trying to control her. So I changed my tactics and I avoid any direct action myself. I want her to discover her own "freedom" and what cost it will come at. It is very difficult and counter-intuitive, but I've tried the other way too, trying to "nice" my way to stop the D. It didn't work.

Two cards the WW will use in manipulation of the H, is #1)to claim he is trying to control her, and #2) to guilt him into doing whatever it is she wants.

My WW is about to leave her family that she has been staying with since she left MH and move into an apartment with one of her girlfriends that is also a WW and getting a D from her H because "she just isn't happy". They both have the same laundry list of specific complaints about husbands and have been and will more than likely continue to feed off of each other.


I have concerns about the thought of my kids staying over there with not one, but TWO WW's and their behavior/house guests, lifestyle, etc. This is I think probably worst case scenario for hopes of reconciliation. They will comfort and support each other and "get through it" together. I will discuss this with my L, but I don't think there is much that can be done unless I pursue sole custody. I guess this is better than an OM scenario but at the same time the OM scenario would be instant reality and this will just be more of a fantasy world.

WW feels compelled to tell me about it and I just tried to be excited for her and congratulate her on her place. She is going to be coming to get some of her stuff, but I am not sure if she is going to want to take all of it, or use the MH like a storage unit. Either way it will be boxed and in the garage. I want to insist that she takes all her stuff, or give her a timeline to make arrangements ( two weeks, one month etc). I feel like if she is going to go, she needs be gone. I don't want to wonder if she is going to come by to grab something or use it as an excuse to swing by when i'm @ work.

I am getting better @ detaching. I was able to predict this roommate sitch, and it really help me prepare and not be caught of guard. Only freaked out for about an hour....lol Luckily she had no clue since she wasn't around.


Sandi, Squiggy, anyone, Thoughts on the roommate sitch??

Just putting the below quote here as a reminder for me. Saw this post by Thornton and it is something that I need to constantly remind myself, especially today.

quote=Thornton


"DB is a process, not a quick fix. It's series of several thousand baby steps. Don't fight your W moving out. It will FEEL like it the absolute end of your R but it's just one of the steps you need to take.

Stay the course and trust the process. Don't give her any reasons to not doubt her decisions.

She wants to leave? Let her leave. She thinks all her problems will magically dissipate. In reality, it's a jungle out there.

Now is the time for you to become so incredibly bada$$, that if W is blind to your progress, eventually you will meet someone that puts your W to shame.

I've been putting all my focus on the gym lately. I train like I'm Rocky Balboa preparing to fight the big Russian lol. I use my pain as the fuel to keep going, to stay motivated.

Find something that drives you. Something to be passionate about. That will help take your mind off of W. Make her regret her decision, D."

Hi CWOL,

I am sure my WW will lean on the controlling thing, since she hasn't tried to use guilt on my yet....yet. How did you go the route of no direct action on your part, without trying to "nice". I afraid my version would lead her to try to use me as a doormat, but I guess that's where the boundaries are so important. Of course then, you have to make sure the boundaries are to manipulate, punish, or vindictive. Is it via NC, good boundaries and dropping the rope?

What types of boundaries did you put in place with your WW?

How did you deal with the threats around kids?

Can you elaborate on what no direct action on your part means to you?

Room mate sitch? LEt it be, you can't do anything about it.

Dang IT!! I got a temp check last night and fell for it.

She wanted to talk about "things" which were what I assumed related to logistics. She again said that she was going to be filing "This week" to which i said, we have discussed this before and that it wasn't my choice and if she needs to do it, there is really no point in discussing when with me. The temp check came next. She was like, "you don't want this? Your not really acting like you want to work on things." She said she was scared that she didn't think she could trust ME and it gave her anxiety even thinking about it. I told her I was scared too at the thought of trying to rebuild, that I have come to realize that the MC we saw TWICE was not equipped to be a MC and that I was now seeing a solution oriented IC and seeing lots of progress when I discuss a solution and not just "how I feel or what I am upset about for 50 minutes and then leaving".

I said our old M is dead etc, we both have a lot of work to do on ourselves and it is normal to be scared and not sure if we can fix it, but the first step is just committing to wanting to fix our M. She basically said that even if we D, we can still take time to work on ourselves and "tons of people S or D and end up back together". Keep US as a plan B is what I heard. I want to go see if there is someone better for me, someone better than you, I want to go party and live a single life, is what I heard.

I shut down the "tons of people get back together" with that I was afraid that once the D happened, to many things can/will happen which would probably make a future for us impossible. She got defensive and was basically like, "if you feel that way then fine, I guess that is how it will be but I need to continue with the D.now. I need this time to work on myself"

I wanted to back track and say something like...no, no, I would still be open in the future but didn't. She got me, but it wasn't a complete fail, was it? How could I DB better in that sitch? I did get her to tell me her feelings and a chance to validate, so that was a plus.

I know it is BS that she didn't know that I was against the D, which obviously means that I want to work it out. Maybe she thought I just wanted to go back to the same old M, so glad I said what I did.

How can I reply with something short and simple?

Also, glad that I said once it was done it is probably done forever To try to counter her thoughts of me as a plan B.

Was that wrong?

I also let her know that I had already boxed up her stuff that she was going to come by and get. That had her literally stutter in shock. Just said, yep. Your not here anymore and I needed the space for kids, thought it would be easier to just get it into the garage instead of you being her all day boxing stuff around the house.

THEN, she followed that up with more requested for $$$.

She came by this AM to get some boxes, mentioned something about my not giving her $$$ contradicted with what I said last night (R talk/temp check). I just said I don't know what to say, "I want to be with someone who wants to be with me" she said so did she. I just shrugged and went back to doing things.


I feel bad for her, she is struggling, but I know that I cannot enable her. She made her decision to do this and other choices and this is just part of the process.

I am going to talk to L and see if we can draw up an agreement now on settlement and just give it to her. Just to drop the rope and not do something she sees as passive aggressive and controlling by not give to her now what we agreed she would get in the D.

I am just focusing on whats best for the kids.



Ok, looking for a 2x4 where I failed and advice on how to improve.

I think you handled it well. As far as what to say if a similar talk happens again, I would just suggest that you do not go back over the fact of you not wanting a D and want to work on the M. She knows perfectly well where you stand. I think you should just kind of lean back and let her act out her little game, and maybe say very little......but enough to cause her to wonder if YOU could be changing your mind about her.

I don't understand why LBH'S think they must assure the WW that he is ready, available, and eager to save the M every time she brings up a R talk. She knows it already. And IMHO, he needs to stop telling her. For example, suppose you had not said anything about this not being what you wanted? Well, she'd probably say something trying to feel you out and may even say you must want a D too, since you weren't acting like you were trying to work things out. When a woman starts trying to put words in your mouth.....look out. It is a trap! Do not start arguing with her or try to convince of anything. Just play your best poker face the entire time she is ratteling off nonsense. Give very vague responses. I'm not that great at dialogs, but maybe this will give an idea of what I mean.

HER: You must want a divorce.
YOU: Oh?
HER: Yeah, b/c you don't act like you are trying to work on things.
YOU: Maybe you have the right idea.
HER: So it's true, you want a divorce?!
YOU: I just know this situation is not working for me.

HER: Well, I'm scared and I just don't know if I would ever be able to trust you again.
YOU: (silence)
HER: I mean my anxiety level goes up just thinking about it.
YOU: (silence)
HER: Even if we D, we can still take time to work on ourselves and "tons of people S or D and end up back together".
YOU: Not this guy.
HER: If you feel that way then fine, I guess that is how it will be but I need to continue with the D.now. I need this time to work on myself"
YOU: Maybe you are right.

You handle yourself with a ton of confidence. Do not act pitiful or sad. Just a strong, confident man who does need her in order to be happy.

Sure, she would storm off (after trying to get $$$), but she wasn't there to resolve anything anyway. But let me tell you, as soon as her temper cooled down, she would start wondering about you. You didn't preach to her, no repeated performances of how you didn't want a divorce, no pursuing, and you were not trying to talk her out of filing. This could be the first step in you becoming the guy she can't have so easily anymore. You become a challenge, and women love it. And of course, she'll have to temp check you again.

The thing is, most LBH'S are just too scared and will say, "But what if it just pushes her closer to filing"? Are you kidding me! She couldn't get any closer. She is playing with you, that's all. When she sees you aren't going to stand on your head and jump through hoops of fire, then she begins to see you as a "man" and not the pathetic H.

Thanks for the example. Short and sweet, just what I was looking for. Calm, cool, collected and confident.

I was stating to think it is redundant and almost pathetic to continue to state I don't want the D. That's exactly what she wants to hear. Also, I think after you make your point know, it just seems like pursuing or opens up the conversation to a bunch of areas that you probably shouldn't go.