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Silent and invisible sounds like a blessing right now.

I understand that although it's all about control. Just a different tactic for the purpose. So it's the same but different.

WH and I have been on good terms because I've been playing along. I made the mistake of thinking perhaps some reasonable co-parenting conversation could happen given the calm few weeks. But no. All it did was provide him with yet another tool to beat me down with.

Can you explain that Msd? Tool to beat you with?How?

Luckily I no longer let myself get beat--because I don't care what he thinks of me anymore.

What you think of you is more important Msd.

But my kids are in the middle. The kids are his last resource to effect me.

Control again. Once he stops concentrating on you it's going to move elsewhere. The kids are the only way to control you that he has left. If you let his actions go, ironically I think he will stop. As long as he has his hostages he will demand his ransom. His mask has dropped. I wish I could help further Msd but my perception and help is limited as I have no children. Schermans sitch is the nearest I can come to. Greengrass has a son although he is much older. I haven't identified an equivalent for you here. I will assist as much as I can.

Part of me realizes that as long as I continue to be his target and his source of narcissistic supply, my kids are safe from becoming the same.

I agree. It's easier though to go grey rock. Children are inferior as narc supply. Sad as it may be, his OW may also be of the same ilk. She will get bored and become the target eventually they will burn each other out.

But they are living in hell.

I might have walked into another trap. He threw another bomb as he was walking away, knowing I was going to defend myself and I did. Honestly he doesn't care about the truth, or what I say, all he cares is that I am talking while he is walking away so that he can claim that I am harrassing him. However, his spin tactics, and his lawyers spin tactics are becoming clear in the courts. I just have to remember that and not let my guard down anymore. I don't have to defend myself to him.

Same tactic as Anc WH or mine. Msd you can't change this man. STOP. And record record record. Every time you have a convo get it on record. If you can stimulate a rant by WH do so.

It is like your WH has a gun with blanks in it, he is testing to see if you fire back. Then he will bring in the forces. It's not real. STFU and record!


I promised myself to be as ethical as possible, even if it feels unfair at the moment. It is really hard to do because my anger often wants me to seek revenge, but I refuse to act on that feeling.

Let go of the resentmenu Msd. It will make things much easier. You will concentrate more to achieve that which you need to achieve.

I would much rather live with the unfair short term events, then have to live with the guilt of trying to screw over the father of my children later.

Msd, my recommendation is to feel that anger, let it out then it will not get to rage. Anger is enormouslying motivating and is not screwing him over. I think you have absorbed his words about what it is you are trying to achieve.

He has his own demons to deal with, and that is not my responsibility.

His sand pit.

I will learn to forgive him for his nastiness--if for no other reason but to free myself of that burden. But he will always have to live with the shame of it. And that shame--I know is the catalyst for all of his nastiness.

You do not have to forgive him. He hasn't asked for forgiveness Msd. This isn't your burden to carry ok?

You could chose to say to yourself until and unless you ask me to forgive you then you are unforgiven. That is between you WH and your higher spirit. Not my job to ask on your behalf, I free myself of that burden. Go WH be as nasty as you want (remember the mirror turns that inwards) ultimately that's between you and your higher power. Not my monkeys, not my circus. You are screwing you. This goes to fresh air not to me.

Any discussion I try to have about the kids' struggle with how things are, he views as an attack against him. That sounds like shame working overtime.

Frankly you are wasting your breath. STOP.

Be a safe haven be the safe secure parent, no matter who sees that, it's for you and your children.

Fight by doing that which is needed legally, put your efforts there. Please don't fight him, the cleverer tactic would seem to be to out manoever rather than go head on.

You are a hobbit rather than a dwarf.

You are clever and loving and full of the higher spirit. Let yourself be the bigger better spirit.


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It's lovely to hear from you.

I am praying for you Msd and the peace in your life.

I struggle sometimes too.

Big hugs

V

Thank you Vanilla. I have to get to work now, but I will reply more when I get home this afternoon. I just wanted to let you know that your words give me strength.

I understand that although it's all about control. Just a different tactic for the purpose. So it's the same but different.
You are right. It is always about control with these types, isn't it. My H still hasn't submitted any documents--including the verified letter of complaint. For someone who claims he wants a divorce he sure is not in any rush to get there. But then again, right now he has everything he wants. Once the D is final he is going to have to give up a good portion of it all.

Can you explain that Msd? Tool to beat you with?How?
My kids have been really upset by the current state of things. The only way to change them before the d is final is to come up with an agreement together. I tried discussing it with him and now that is his weapon to hold over me. He knows the kids are the only hold he still has over me. He knows that is where I am most vulnerable. And by trying to open up a discussion I gave him the reins (in his mind at least).

What you think of you is more important Msd.

Yes--I am becoming more confident in my choices and behavior. I used to get easily swayed by others' opinions of me--especially his, but as time goes by other people are effecting me less.

Control again. Once he stops concentrating on you it's going to move elsewhere. The kids are the only way to control you that he has left. If you let his actions go, ironically I think he will stop. As long as he has his hostages he will demand his ransom. His mask has dropped. I wish I could help further Msd but my perception and help is limited as I have no children. Schermans sitch is the nearest I can come to. Greengrass has a son although he is much older. I haven't identified an equivalent for you here. I will assist as much as I can.

I haven't read up on Scherman's sitch. I'll have to look for it.

I agree. It's easier though to go grey rock. Children are inferior as narc supply. Sad as it may be, his OW may also be of the same ilk. She will get bored and become the target eventually they will burn each other out.
I hope that the kids aren't his next target. I feel like my son has gone through periods where he was--but not to an extreme level. S was all upset over the weekend because he didn't realize H had texted him until 8 hours later and he was nervous about H getting mad at him. It makes me sick to my stomach to see my kids go through that same anxiety I always did when I feared I upset or insulted him in some way. H is not violent or scary in that sense, but he really makes you feel like [censored] just by shutting you out and stonewalling. You know that you are on his [censored] list, but he never will actually tell you why and if you ask he will deny and make you feel like you are overly sensitive and annoying. D doesn't seem to get that treatment as much as S and I.

Same tactic as Anc WH or mine. Msd you can't change this man. STOP. And record record record. Every time you have a convo get it on record. If you can stimulate a rant by WH do so.

It is like your WH has a gun with blanks in it, he is testing to see if you fire back. Then he will bring in the forces. It's not real. STFU and record!
Yes. This is what he is doing. I have the STFU. He knows that one topic that always gets me into defensive mode. He has been recording and video taping apparently. I am not that savvy, but I am kind of relieved he recorded it. Because the first conversation where I thought we could come to an agreement in the kids' best interest and it seemed to be positive. I felt good when I hung up the phone. But within a few hours I realized that he started the spin doctoring. And by the afternoon he had the trap set--and I walked into it, although I think I got myself out in time. He recorded it all. And from my memory I believe it will help me more than him.


Let go of the resentmenu Msd. It will make things much easier. You will concentrate more to achieve that which you need to achieve.
I'm trying. When my kids are happy it is easy. When I see them hurting and I know I can't do anything about it I get frustrated and the resentment comes back.


Msd, my recommendation is to feel that anger, let it out then it will not get to rage. Anger is enormouslying motivating and is not screwing him over. I think you have absorbed his words about what it is you are trying to achieve.
I do absorb his words. I always think at first that he didn't get to me, but then its like in the days that follow I am marinating in his attack and it starts to seep in. I have to learn to let go of worrying about what he thinks and wants me to think..

His sand pit.

You do not have to forgive him. He hasn't asked for forgiveness Msd. This isn't your burden to carry ok?

You could chose to say to yourself until and unless you ask me to forgive you then you are unforgiven. That is between you WH and your higher spirit. Not my job to ask on your behalf, I free myself of that burden. Go WH be as nasty as you want (remember the mirror turns that inwards) ultimately that's between you and your higher power. Not my monkeys, not my circus. You are screwing you. This goes to fresh air not to me.
Yes. I believe this most of the time. But when the doubt sets in it consumes me. Things are taking too long to get better, and the fear that it might never get better is overwhelming. Then things settle and I start to feel like things are ok--but that is usually when the kids start opening up about their fears and pain and it opens the wounds all over again. Mostly because my hands are tied.

Frankly you are wasting your breath. STOP.

Be a safe haven be the safe secure parent, no matter who sees that, it's for you and your children.

Fight by doing that which is needed legally, put your efforts there. Please don't fight him, the cleverer tactic would seem to be to out manoever rather than go head on.

You are a hobbit rather than a dwarf.

You are clever and loving and full of the higher spirit. Let yourself be the bigger better spirit.
Ok--It is all about the kids now. That part is obvious. I am done trying to be fair--because all I am doing is showing all of my cards of what I am willing to sacrifice, leaving me with only the things that truly matter as bargaining chips. It isn't good. But I am a hobbit. I like that.

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It's lovely to hear from you.

I am praying for you Msd and the peace in your life.

I struggle sometimes too.

Big hugs

V [/quote]

Thank you V. I am praying for you too. This will end eventually for both of us. And then we will be truly free.

Promises I am making to myself:
No more mind reading--or trying to read him at all.
I will just assume that every word, action, silence is all part of his game playing and I will not pay it any mind.

I will accept what is--for now.
Keeping my focus on my goals for how this should turn out is not serving me well, it is only making me frustrated and impatient. I just have to accept that this is my life right now. And it will get better. Just not on my timeline. I know what I want, I am losing hope that I will get it. But eventually it will get better than how it is right now. And right now--I can make the best of it. I just have to give up trying to change things right now because it is completely out of my hands. I am dealing with an unreasonable person, and a slow and inefficient legal system.
Patience Mustardseed--Patience.

I will be confident in who I am and the choices I make.
Too often I let other people sway me. I worry about what they think. I give away my power too easily, open up to others too quickly, and leave myself open to criticism. And then I take it in and start doubting myself. No more. I know I am coming from a place that is good, and fair, and honest. I know that I have integrity. Just because people try to spin it, or think they have a right to impose their judgment on what I do, doesn't change the fact that I have the truth on my side.

I like this Msd it is stated in the positive current voice as if you have already achieved it.

Just one minor observation- there is some negating self talk in there. For instance I let other people sway me......

Could that be said as: I consider others opinions and where I consider this to be important I validate.

V

That is what I am trying to do. I think in the past I always did let people sway me. I always felt other people's opinions had more value than mine.

I realize I am getting better at that now. I am starting to build my confidence. It started with my job. I love it. It restored my confidence that I do belong in the field even after last year's disastrous work situation. I also picked up some after school work. A job that I was also feeling unqualified for and very insecure about. I have now been at it for over a few weeks and while I still am feeling my way through, I realize that my doubts are normal. That I am just as qualified as the next person, maybe even moreso because I enjoy the work and this particular case is very hard for most people. I also learned to use the insecurity to make me grow rather than make me quit. I tapped into some important resources to make this a success.

I am not loving the second job, but I do like it and as I get more confident I sure I will get to the point where I look forward to going. Right now I am still a little whiny on the days when I know I have to go there after work.

Things are getting better. The D has been at a standstill due to lack of participation on WH and his Ls part, but the court is starting to get frustrated with them and I am beginning to sense the winds changing. Makes it much easier to not play into his games because I think I am going to start to see some progress in the matter soon.

I also have gotten to the point where I don't have OW a second thought. When I do think of her I am no longer angry at her. I think she is simply a new target for him. I won't go so far as to say I feel for her, but she is no longer an enemy. She is a non-entity. I can even help my D do projects for her class and talk about her in a positive way without having thoughts of ripping her hair out. So I guess I've come a long way.

Thank you for continuing to post. I love hearing that you are doing better and on the up, in all aspects of your life. You have been through so much, it's great knowing that you have made it through. You have always taken the high road, and I root you on like I would any heroine from a story.

How were you able to detach? Do you think it was time? Being busy? Was it a matter of gradually accepting things as is? I was told if patience is not your virtue, it will become so through this process. You certainly seem to have embraced it.

Lots of luck

Hugs,

Julie

mustardseed, every time I read up on your stitch your H reminds me of my H. I feel like I am headed straight to where you are right now. I really like when you update and let us know how you are doing. You are such a strong and amazing person, and I hope I can be as strong as you when the time comes.

Hi Julie. I know I don't check in as much these days. Partly because not much is happening--which isn't a bad thing.


I don't know exactly how detachment came--or if it is here to stay. I think I am seeing him totally differently now. I don't recognize him as my husband anymore and the person I see now is not worth my time. I noticed, since the last incident in mid February, that his charm doesn't effect me anymore. Keeping busy definitely helped. The less time you have to think about it, the easier it starts to fade.

One thing I know is that I had to fake it--a lot--before I really started to feel it. And while I am an impatient person, I think you are right that this type of situation is what forces you to learn patience. Things are completely out of my hands. I have a choice to make to either be patient and trust it will be ok, just not on my timeline (church and my spirituality is helping with that) or to be incredibly frustrated, angry, and bitter all of the time (which just feels awful and leads to bad decisions).

Part of the faking it was forced on me. I am living in a bubble where I can't avoid being in the spotlight. I have no idea who knows what, who thinks what, who is telling him what, and because everything is so intertwined with my children I can't just cut people out and move on. So I fake it, and sometimes I don't have to fake it. And as time goes on I find I am faking it much less and it is becoming real.

Lately the faking it only comes when I need to interact with people connected to his job. Last week it happened twice, and one of the people I could tell was feigning concern for me to get dirt. In the past I would have spilled because I always felt like I owed everyone a full story. This time my response was pretty much, "I really don't know what happened, but I am much happier now. Thanks for your concern." I am getting information from these interactions, and the less I say the better. He doesn't have too many people on his side, even those who are on his turf. And the fact that he is so secretive isn't working in his favor, because it just makes the rumor mill work overtime. It is all so ridiculous but makes it easier to detach. I don't have to defend myself or get people to turn on him. That all happened without my input.

I really just don't love him anymore. I don't pity him either like I did in the beginning of this journey when I thought he was depressed and needed my support despite his nasty actions. Now I really just don't care about him at all. He is my kids' father and that's it. No other ties.

I think it also helps that I have been socializing a lot and I feel more attractive and likable than I have in years. I was happy to play the role of his wife, sitting on the sidelines, but now I am rediscovering that I am a lot of fun and I still got it. I am still the person he became enamored with so many years ago. I forgot that person existed. Actually, I am even better now than I was then.

<<hugs>> it is a nasty road, but there are silver linings in the form of growth and freedom. Thank you for saying that I am strong. It doesn't always feel that way. But I am learning that you don't always have to be. There will be setback that will feel like there is no recovering from, but it is all just waves that you have to ride. I'm not out of it yet, but I feel like I am becoming better at gauging what might be coming and preparing for it.

Man, I hope I get to take another surf lesson this summer. I think that was the best GAL thing I did during this crisis, because I faced my biggest fear. And there is no other activity I have ever participated in that forces you to be in the moment quite as much as surfing. It was a metaphor brought to life.