Stosny & Love - How to improve your marriage without talking about it. Great discussion on fear & shame reactions, and how to alter within your self so you're actually present to listen to others. I also liked how they framed, for the caveman in me, that if your core values are to be there for your family, you've got to man up and get to a spot where you can listen without anger and shame...
Nichols - Lost art of listening. Most of the way through this book, and it does bog down in a few places on theory, though there are a lot of good strategies on how to hear what others are saying. Its not only helping with my family, I've found it useful in my work in managing my team and dealing with customers...
I actually got a lot out of the Lost Art of Listening - apparently I was the person in our marriage who had the mjor communication issues, even though I accused my H of this. It has also helped me in dealing with work and other social situations. I would also recommend the Solo Partner and the Five Love Languages. Very helpful, also, in communicating with S.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
I started Five Love Languages, and plan to go back and read it...
I'm currently reading Stosny - "You Don't Have to Take it Anymore: Turn Your Resentful, Angry, or Emotionally Abusive Relationship into a Compassionate, Loving One". This book is targeting wives with angry, resentful husbands, though it is intended to be read by anyone. This book is good so far, and frankly scaring me a little in wondering if during my angry outbursts was I ever that guy causing that much pain or fear in my W. In my new, better place, I'm reading this book as inspiration to NEVER be that guy with my family, and to figure out ways to tear down the walls of resentment...
This whole experience has been quite an awakening. Not sure where its going to go. I'm already finding myself when talking to other couples saying things like "cherish every day together, and put in the daily effort to keep it magical". Wish I had figured this out years ago, though I guess I wasn't ready to hear it and anyways I can't change the past. I'm starting to feel that the future is a new place, and that I will be fine and I'll be in a much better place for the others in my life like my kids. Still hoping that my W will come around, but feeling much less needy about that...
Feels like I've downgraded to the kiddie roller coaster with smaller bumps and scares, and that's not a bad thing :-)
Thanks to everyone for being so supportive. Its amazing how just knowing that others are out there that understand this sitch and are cheering you on can help me get through another day, another week. I can see why these forums seem so busy with people giving back to others...
The senior members that stick around long after their own situations are resolved are an inspiration. It makes me want to have that kind of strength someday. I notice many of the success stories seem to fade off too, so they aren't re-opening wounds, and that is OK too. Everyone is different, and I am grateful for the DB pros that stick around. My WAW just started IC, and we haven't had any MC yet. You are a step ahead of me in that regard, but everyone's journey must take its own path. My W knows she is broken, and needs to work herself out in her own head before she can think about us. I think the same is true with the spouse like you and I. We need to rebuild ourselves first, or risk a repeat of the same years or months down the road when we get comfortable.
Me:34 W:33 R: 15 years M: 7 years W moved out: 11/21/15 BD: 11/20/15 - ILYBINILWY, PA once LRT: 12/14/15
Thanks for sharing! Not sure if I'm "ahead" - my W does not think she's broken, but she's at least willing to do couples consulting for the sake of our kids and the relationship we'll need relative to them. At least it gets us to another place to start talking to see what's salvageable even if she's not convinced she wants to salvage (yet)...
Agree and applaud you and your W working to get yourselves to a better place. I've got to hope that will help you both a lot regardless of outcome, and really hope you figure things out together...
We've got our 2nd MC session tonight so we'll she if she's willing to continue. fingers crossed.
Hard to think though how the therapy will help other than a structured place for us to talk. I'm hopeful that the therapist is good enough to help us get to a better place where we can start talking through our issues at least going forward, and I guess uncover any unhealed emotional wounds that are hurting any sort of better relationship. All very foreign to me...
Your point about risk of repeat is the thing that scares me the most. Don't want to patch things up with the W and then have it blow up again in a few years, or worst go through the pain of a D and then blow up the next relationship - either scenario would be most painful for kids and myself. Need to stay committed to getting to a better place and working hard on all of the important relationships in my life...
So had 2nd MC session together, and I guess no surprise, no big changes. We talked some about things from 20+ years ago, some getting my side of the story our while trying hard not to be defensive - felt very awkward. Tired hard to hear what she was feeling them, and validating her feelings... So blurry to discuss things 15-20 years ago as its hard to know what either of us was thinking or feeling or why we did such and such. I guess trying to be positive, it provides an opportunity for the new me to express how I know see I should have handled various situations differently; been less dismissive of some of her concerns and fears.
Again trying to be positive, W did not say anything about wanting separation or such this session, though she did re-statement that it must be hard for me to hear that she's done... If her wanting to leave or for me to move out was a priority, I'd expect more action from her, so I'll have to interpret that as she's starting to have doubts... Its just I don't know where that leave things or what to do next...
Feeling a little blue today. Resentment about "why do I have to keep being positive and strong and such" all the time creeping in. I know why - I love my family and I'm making these changes / improvements so I'm in a better place to be there for the people I love, and that's important. The rest is just noise that I can't let get under my skin...
Just feeling a little sorry for myself today, so giving my W a little extra distance till I can re-group...
Cadet: Thanks, though easier said than done. Agree I can't talk her out of how she feels; I can only control myself...
I'm having a hard time now controlling the resentment. So hard and painful last couple of months, and overall I'm feeling much better about myself and how I'm interacting with others. Still hard not to start feeling annoyed at the W constantly (isn't but feels like it) highlighting how much she's done and she doesn't want to invest in R...
I know I can't expect anything from her. I guess I'm getting a little worn down from the roller coaster, and all the extra effort it is trying to act differently...
So feeling better, in part to some fabulous insights from DB Coach Chuck. I had a session with him after I was feeling all grumbly and sorry for myself about "I'm doing more around the house and I only get complaints", and I told him as part of my argument with my W she said "... and you never could handle criticism well..." Chuck run with this and gave me some advise that really made me feel better, which I'll try to paraphrase here...
There's a big difference between complaints about behavior ("you should do it this way versus that" versus complaints / criticism that attack your character ("you really must be an idiot if you don't know how to do this right"). Both kinds make many folks angry and defensive, but if you can separate the two you can do a 180 on the behavioral complaints that could work wonders for your R. The later case of character attack ("you're an idiot") is bad, and you need to make it clear to others that's not OK.
In the case of behavioral complaints, yeah maybe your spouse could say it in a nicer way, but most likely they feel they really are trying to help. Instead of getting annoyed and defensive, look at it as an opportunity / gift to connect with them - "I hadn't thought of that, why do you do it that way? here's why I thought this way would work...". Act AS-IF your R is good and the other is trying to be helpful - you'd most likely respond thankful, engaged, and trying to connect more with them...
So, yeah, I'd like it if my W would make these behavioral complaints in a nicer way, but hell given the DB stich I'm in now, letting it roll and seeing it as an opportunity to re-connect with my W is exactly what I'm trying to do right now - so game on :-)
This strategy / mindset change of seeing behavioral complaints as opportunities to (re)connect with the W immediately made me feel better as I'm guessing she really is trying to be helpful in most cases, and probably my own insecurities were making me defensive and helping to build that wall between us. Thinking back I think many of these criticism arguments spiraled out of control because we're both stubborn and had to be RIGHT in our approach versus seeing that the other was trying to help or maybe, just maybe we had missed out on some detail where our way wasn't so perfect after all...
Many of these DR strategies of look hard for the small improvements and acting AS-IF are starting to make more sense to me. They help keep me motivated, focused on taking actions to improve myself, and change my mindset to be more open to opportunities to connect with all of the important people in my life when they happen...
Lots and lots of work to be done still, and I'm still a little nervous that around the next corner is a brick flying at my head, though trying to stay positive and focused on taking control over my own life and emotions... Still very hard, very distracting, hard to sleep, but I know I can't go back to the way it was, so just have to push forward hoping that a better me will lead to a better life with my family somehow...
Thanks again to everyone for sharing your stories, your support, and your insights - it really helps a lot to know I'm not alone...
RE MC: another session with both of us, and we re-hashed a recent argument. It was interesting, I guess productive, that my W highlighted how this arguments showed "aha there's the angry guy from before; I knew he'd come back". The interesting bit was that she started to see that it was different in the past, and that because she's done with me, she was perhaps projecting a lot of the past onto this, and to a degree making it self-fulfilling because she's been waiting / not believing I've changed... I also learned more about the pain she's built up over many many years in our R.
I learned I've got to get a better handle on dealing with behavioral criticism. This argument that we were re-hashing happened before my epiphany with DB Coach Chuck...
It was also interesting as the argument was around some household chores, and it came up that in some ways she didn't like that I was cutting into her areas of expertise. She made it clear she's fine with me continuing to help more - it was interesting to see its making her re-think her day to day activities around the house...
Outside of MC, things have been feeling like we're a couple of good friends living together, which isn't bad...
Started thinking about what to do about Valentine's day.
No significant changes to report - perhaps I need to go back to looking at smaller changes to see if I'm still making progress or not...
new habits - making more time for my kids; household chores; listening without my emotions getting in the way - are starting to become a little easier, a little more automatic
sitch with W is still chilly - cordial roommate like - but at least I'm not hearing talk of separation or such, so baby steps...
Hard not to measure progress in terms of repairing relationship - I know I can't change her, so I shouldn't measure my improvements relative to changes in her - though hard not to. I'm trying to look at it in terms of how are the changes I'm making in my life and attitude impacting her and my kids as they see me the most. At least my time with kids feels better, and I'm continue to work on improving that as I feel more immediate benefits there that help keep me moving forward...
Struggling a bit with work life balance. I've backed out a lot to put more focus on the other more important fires in my life, which still feels like right thing to do. That said, I know I can't sustain this lower level of attention on my work for much longer without it negatively impacting my job performance. I'm hoping as new habits take hold and get a little easier (i hope) that it will give me back more time for work.
Slow and steady wins the race, even though its not the most exciting path - need to keep my eye on the prize - better relationships with the ones I love...
