Trumpet - congrats on the days under your belt. I know that if you stand on the shoulders of giants, you'll continue to be able to stand above any addiction. You absolutely understand first hand what it means to become powerful by first admitting you are powerless and I wish you the best in your recovery. Luckily, for me, I aged out of porn but that doesn't mean that it couldn't have gone that way. I just substituted one addiction for others and then double dipped on a few others. I'm very, very hopeful. Especially considering I got my copy of DR today. Got some reading to do tonight.
I broke radio silence and sent an email to wife. Without posting entire contents, I will break down the salient points with her paraphrased responses.
1. to divorce? is it justified/fair?
Me: told W that I didn't think divorce was justified based on the damage it would do to kids, us and finances. Poor choice of words, justified was. Her response.
W: I'm going to replace the word justified with the word "fair." It most certainly is justified. What divorce isn't is fair for our kids, fair for us fair for our families or fair for our finances.
2. together we can move mountains
Me: Told W that while I think right now we both need some more time apart, that as allies we could move mountains in both of our journies toward recovery, much less tackle the elephant in the room of what my addiction has done to us.
W: I agree. What that means in terms of our relationship is yet to be determined.
3. I'm getting better.
Me: As you see me getting more and more sobriety under my belt, you will understand how serious I am about this complete change in me. The change will not have anything but positive impacts on who I am. The man you fell in love with, married and started a family with is still there and I'm uncovering more of him daily.
W: I agree with all of this.
4. Trust can be rebuilt.
M: trust can be rebuilt and relationships can be saved.
W: Yes, both trust and relationships can be saved. It doesn't happen overnight. It also doesn't fall apart or break overnight either. Forcing this communication now is not good for either of us. The hurt I feel from your lack of honesty with our family (listed more recent events that hurt her). Was your conscience obsolete?
(The above was the only part I responded to.)
W final statement:
I just wished your rock bottom was the first time you were withdrawing from opiates or the 2nd...3rd.... OR before that, (listed how I embarrassed her at my BIL - her brother's wedding and couldn't drive the babysitter home in addition to a few other embarassing alcohol fueled instances)
I knew then you had a problem with alcohol but I wasn't strong enough to force you to fix yourself. I am learning through therapy that I CANNOT and WILL NOT ever be able to make you do anything. That you are in control of your own choices and I cannot feel responsible or guilty for the choices you made to not get the help that you needed.
-email end-
My response to the question, "was your conscience obsolete?"
Me: You have just nailed the crux of alcoholism. I heard a woman speak last night at the _________ clinic where I help my sponsor bring in the AA meeting to the clients (who are on lockdown btw). This woman was early to mid 40s, very well put together, an accomplished (led sales in 2015 for her company) and she reminded me of (W's BFF). Very intelligent. Very rational and practical. I connected with the woman's story as I have with many, not so much with specifics but with the level of insanity of her behavior. Drunk or in between drunks. This woman spun a tale of true misery and darkness which helped to confirm my belief (and many other AAs' belief) that, like her, I am not "just like everyone else." There's something different about me and that something, not a good thing, is that I don't know what my life or behavior is going to be like if I am drinking/drugging. The alcoholic doesn't need to be intoxicated presently to have alcoholic behavior. Not drinking is just the "entry fee," to sobriety. Without doing the work, the steps, the service, working with a sponsor and eventually sponsoring other alcoholics, she, I, nearly every person I have met in those rooms has a pretty low chance of making it.
I have made some really good friends believe it or not. Good guys (men and women pretty much remain separate in AA. So, I don't have any female friendships) with years of sobriety. People I talk to on the phone and who care about me. People I'm accountable to for making coffee and looking for speakers for meetings on Mondays. People who, when they don't see me at my regular meetings, give a shout and ask, "hey. Everything ok?" In other words, I am learning, actually really learning how to forge friendships with people. This is significant, especially considering that the friendships are with other men which has been a weakness for me. These aren't guys who one might worry, "oh, today they're going to go off the brink and possibly take me with them." These are solid guys years and years of confirmed sobriety and participation in the program.
when you ask if my conscience was obsolete, yes. The answer is yes. And that made things so much worse. The discrepancy between who I thought I was/who u thought I was/who I wanted to be and the way I actually behaved, made me sicker. And it made everyone around me sicker. This worsened my isms which widened the discrepancy I described which worsened my isms and round and round in an ever outwardly expanding circle that was both increasing in sickness and increasing in difficulty of stopping.
(Still me writing to her) I put a lot of relationship talk in my response here and decided to cut it out. I just wanted to get this across and got carried away. You can have it if u want it. I have it saved. I'll wait for if/when you're ready.
Tonight is my second intake appointment for outpatient treatment to develop a treatment plan. The facility I'm going to asks spouses to attend this meeting. W has agreed to attend. She asked for no more R talk for a "while," to which I said I would respect that.
I'm hopeful. I'm just hoping not too hopeful.
I know I should not have broken radio silence but I got weak. The upside is, that this moment of weakness came after a good span of going dark.
I'm just so afraid the time apart is going to make it easier for W to walk away. So. How bad did I screw myself?
Hoppy.
Last edited by Cadet; 03/03/1601:37 PM. Reason: merged
First of all please stick to one thread until 100 posts. It makes it easier to follow along later.
Second piece of advice is that I would post what you want to e-mail or correspond with her here first and get feedback. We usually suggest waiting 48 hours to get input here, and not responding to quickly to them.
Normally less said the better. She wants to hear you through Actions not Words, cause words are not always true.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I'm not a veteran. I'm newer here and I've made tons of mistakes. I have only one piece of advice: stop pushing her. You have a chance. She seems willing to consider it. Stop making her talk about it. You are backing her into a corner. Actions speak louder than words. I truly believe you have to show her you've changed consistently. Then, only then, will she consider it. Please learn from my mistakes - if I would've given time and space to my H, I may have had better chance to save my M. Good luck. And keep up the good work on YOU!
M 44 H 46 M 20yrs T 25 yrs S15 S12
ILYBINILWY 7/18/15 Move to MBR 9/8/15 Physical Separation 10/10/15 Suspect A 8/2015 Confirm A 12/27/15 D filed by H 2/2/16
