Catching up on V's boundary list b/c I need this myself but in the meantime, just want to comment on the comments from Au Bob and Tyler's points that, yes we need keep in mind that they think they are in control and that we are pathetic and not allow them to suck as back in with niceties. I've been trying to figure out this nice then disappearing dance from H for months now and it's a very fine line b/c I also struggle with not knowing just how far to go into detaching while wanting to be "friendly" and allow it to develop into something more.
So I'm just trying to GAL/180 and like Au Bob said, show him that I don't need his sympathy and I can get along just fine without him. Trying to not hang onto his every word or gesture.
"Be messy and complicated and afraid and show up anyways."
Here are my suggestions. Please remember I am working on the same issues and my perspective may differ from what a vet advises
1. In my case I will ask what W needs. As I don't want her in the house. I don't feel I am being an assistant in this case I am making sure my children have what they need. When the roles are reversed I don't want to go do the packing. Why can't they pack what is necessary.
2. That one is tougher. I say tell him what you feel at the time. If it is uncomfortable for you say so and ask him to respect your wishes.
In laws. They will say these things. Mine do too. However I have found unless I reaching to them they don't bother to talk to me. No matter what they tell you remember that blood is thicker than water. You are water in this case.
No more family time is probably for the best. It is confusing for you. Stressful and sets you back. It does for me too. Second and maybe more important. It is hard on the kids and gives them false hope that everything is ok. It's not their fault this is going on at all, with my first wife. The only time we are together is for child functions. There is never supper or anything as friends because we are not. We are co parents.
The person that you will spend the most time with in your life is yourself, so make yourself as interesting as possible.
One last question: The H has said in the past that the A is over because the OW is working on her M with her husband. I don't necessarily believe him. Also, he still insists that we are getting divorced. Do I stick with same boundaries if I find out that the A is actually over?
Broke and G8r, I too struggle with the whole boundaries and Vanilla's comment really helps to illustrate exactly how we should be moving forward and enforcing boundaries to set up a new form interaction and shift the dynamics for a "new" R or just new way of living.
In regards to your comment above, my H also says his A is over with OW and he's not seeing anyone, but I know thats not true. So to piggyback on your question, how does that change interactions with H? My gut tells me it doesn't change interactions that much b/c they're still out there doing whatever it is they're doing. In the same breath, I realized I needed to set boundaries myself along time ago but haven't really tried b/c for some reason I feel like setting boundaries will only push them further away. Also, how do you set boundaries with someone who doesn't care?
"Be messy and complicated and afraid and show up anyways."
S can tell you whatever they want. Same as I can and you can chose to believe it or not. Believe none of what they say 1/2 of what they do.
Also the boundaries are not for them. They are for you. The boundaries are for you to advertise to them. If S comes back to talk or whatever the boundaries are set in your life for you. Not to control them.
The person that you will spend the most time with in your life is yourself, so make yourself as interesting as possible.
I am sorry that you are going through something similar to me. But, I am thankful for the perspective and feedback. Agree with all you wrote, especially part about giving the kids false hope. I brought that up with my H and he just brushes it off. Says the kids know that we are still getting D because he has told them. He doesn't get it because he is in affair fog. Doesn't really have any empathy for the rest of us right now.
Hope,
I think in my H's case he is either 1) waiting to see if the OW comes back to him or 2) following through with D because he has to keep his credibility and prove M was already bad (so it had nothing to do with his A)
Interesting question: How do you set boundaries with someone that doesn't care?
I think the goal is to set those boundaries as part of your db'ing. To take you further in your goals to improve yourself and stand for your marriage (at the same time you are detaching and moving away from hope). That is my take on it.
M 44 H 46 M 20yrs T 25 yrs S15 S12
ILYBINILWY 7/18/15 Move to MBR 9/8/15 Physical Separation 10/10/15 Suspect A 8/2015 Confirm A 12/27/15 D filed by H 2/2/16
Well said, Tyler. That was what I was trying to get at, but I think you said it better. V said that, too. The boundaries are really about US not the WAS. I was typing while you posted.
M 44 H 46 M 20yrs T 25 yrs S15 S12
ILYBINILWY 7/18/15 Move to MBR 9/8/15 Physical Separation 10/10/15 Suspect A 8/2015 Confirm A 12/27/15 D filed by H 2/2/16
OK let's now form these up to boundary statements that you can enforce and keep to.
Otherwise if you are in a difficult position you will be cornered.
Not quite there yet
-------------------------------------------------------- Tyler and Vanilla,
Thank you so much for your posts. It really helps to have you share your personal experiences for me to draw from. It is invaluable.
Tyler - you are absolutely right. I don't want to be friends with who my H is right now. That is a great way to approach the situation.
Vanilla - I can't tell you how much I appreciate you taking all that time to help me out. Really very kind of you. I love your ideas and suggestions because this is what I have been struggling with over the past week (i.e. friends vs. civil co-parents).
Glad to help you define your action statements
Texts and emails:
Agree with your suggestions 100%
OK, remember if what you do works for YOU then fine, if not adjust.
When WH texts me then I will respond immediately if emergency regarding children and if the matter proves to be trivial then I will take no action.
If WH texts me about a trivial issue then I will respond when convenient for me
If WH texts me regarding our R (although there has been nothing about that in weeks, so probably not a concern right now) then I will not respond, if he persists then I will advise that I do not respond by texts to those communications
if WH texts about matters regarding our D or finances then I will refer him to my D, if he persists then I will advise that I refer these matters to my L and will send him my Ls telephone number.
----------------------------------------
I think it's your turn to convert these to enforceable boundaries.
Conversations (very rare - usually communicate through text or email):
- will limit to concerns only regarding the kids or pertinent issues regarding the house, belongings, etc. - will not talk about D (leave to L) - will try to validate any feelings/concerns but not discuss anything with regards to R (but, again, he hasn't broached this topic in weeks)
Meetings:
- will limit to concerns only regarding very important, time-sensitive issues about the kids - will smile, be abrupt yet civil
Specific boundaries with regards to the kids:
- handovers: we both drop off the kids at the front or back door. No conversations or entry into each others' homes; just a wave if we see each other.
Remember your behaviour, your boundary. What happens if your WH enters without being invited?
- birthdays for kids: we had family dinner on S15 birthday. Was horrible interaction. Will not be an issue until May but will inform H that we will do separate birthday celebrations with the boys.
- family events: The H and I will not attend family events with in-laws. (My family hates H right now; his family misses me, but I have blocked them on facebook and informed them that we won't be in contact until the D is final)
- School events/kids activities: I have maintained my distance from H. I sit or stand away from him. I will be civil and abrupt if I have to interact. I will smile, act light and breezy (thanks, Thornton)
- Teacher conferences: coming up soon in March. Will arrive early and sit outside the classroom, so don't have to interact with H. Will direct all conversation to teacher. While walking out, be civil and abrupt.
Couple questions:
1. what to do about packing for kids for vacations with their dad? In the past, I have let him come in the house and assist them so they don't forget anything (and I am not his "assistant" anymore for him to ask me to do his chores). My proposal is to continue to have him pack with them and make sure that I will be out of the house during those times.
Decide what is best for your kids and work from that.
2. S15 enters golf tournaments and the parents walk and watch. My proposal is I maintain my distance from H and walk with other parents or by myself. This may be tough because the H really seems to want to be my friend. Should I tell him something about us not walking together? Or, just be civil and abrupt and move away when it is reasonable to do so?
Which of these is right for you? If one doesn't work can you do the other? What would be the enforcement if you said don't walk together and WH wanted to be 'friends' ?
So, in the last 3-4 weeks, I did a 180 and let go of my anger about the PA to be civil co-parents. I made a couple mistakes encouraging this "friendship" with my H during that time:
- went to his parents' 50th wedding anniversary party (his parents cried they were so happy to see me and both his brothers said that no matter what I was still their "sister"). Since then, I have had no contact and gently told them I was blocking them from facebook until the D was final. In addition, I won't be going to any more family events.
What was your mistake in this exactly?
- I let S12 invite my H over for the first half of the Super Bowl and we watched it as a family. No more family events while PA going on.
Can you put this as a boundary statement?
- On Sunday, we had a family lunch to discuss a couple important kid issues that were time sensitive. Next time, an email or phone call will do.
This one is very easy to do as a boundary!
I cannot tell you all how much I appreciate all the feedback, personal stories and generous advice. This "friend zone" issue has been weighing on me heavily. I wasn't sure what to do - I now know that I am the friendly yet not so friendly neighbor. I know most of my boundaries (thanks V!) and will stick with them.
One last question: The H has said in the past that the A is over because the OW is working on her M with her husband. I don't necessarily believe him. Also, he still insists that we are getting divorced. Do I stick with same boundaries if I find out that the A is actually over?
Yes very much so, your boundaries may include apologies, transparency and a letter to OW from WH terminating their R officially. You adapt slowly to the change.
Thank you, thank you!
-------------------------------------------------
Welcome
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Thank you, Vanilla. I made my changes in red. You really are a very generous and special person to spend so much time on my sitch. I am very grateful and feel much more prepared due to all the kindness from the people on this board.
-------------------------------------------------------- OK let's now form these up to boundary statements that you can enforce and keep to.
Otherwise if you are in a difficult position you will be cornered.
Not quite there yet
-------------------------------------------------------- Tyler and Vanilla,
Thank you so much for your posts. It really helps to have you share your personal experiences for me to draw from. It is invaluable.
Tyler - you are absolutely right. I don't want to be friends with who my H is right now. That is a great way to approach the situation.
Vanilla - I can't tell you how much I appreciate you taking all that time to help me out. Really very kind of you. I love your ideas and suggestions because this is what I have been struggling with over the past week (i.e. friends vs. civil co-parents).
Glad to help you define your action statements
Texts and emails:
Agree with your suggestions 100%
OK, remember if what you do works for YOU then fine, if not adjust.
When WH texts me then I will respond immediately if emergency regarding children and if the matter proves to be trivial then I will take no action.
If WH texts me about a trivial issue then I will respond when convenient for me
If WH texts me regarding our R (although there has been nothing about that in weeks, so probably not a concern right now) then I will not respond, if he persists then I will advise that I do not respond by texts to those communications
if WH texts about matters regarding our D or finances then I will refer him to my L, if he persists then I will advise that I refer these matters to my L and will send him my Ls telephone number.
----------------------------------------
I think it's your turn to convert these to enforceable boundaries.
Conversations (very rare - usually communicate through text or email):
If WH wants to talk to me about important issues regarding the children or the house/belongings, we can schedule a time to talk by phone or in person. If WH wants to talk about the divorce, then I will direct him to speak with our attorneys. If WH wants to discuss anything about our R, I will attempt to validate any of his feelings and concerns and direct the conversation to a different topic. If he persists, I will say that I am not going to discuss our R while you are having an active affair.
Meetings:
If WH wants to have a meeting, I will limit it to very important, time-sensitive issues about the kids. I will be civil, end the meeting before he does and will not engage in small talk about other items.
Specific boundaries with regards to the kids:
- handovers: we both drop off the kids at the front or back door. No conversations or entry into each others' homes; just a wave if we see each other.
Remember your behaviour, your boundary. What happens if your WH enters without being invited? Hmmmm…this one is tricky because I don’t want to get into argument in front of the children. Is it okay to say “I think it is best that we stick to dropping off the kids at the door”.
- birthdays for kids: we had family dinner on S15 birthday. Was horrible interaction. Will not be an issue until May but will inform H that we will do separate birthday celebrations with the boys.
- family events: The H and I will not attend family events with in-laws. (My family hates H right now; his family misses me, but I have blocked them on facebook and informed them that we won't be in contact until the D is final)
- School events/kids activities: I have maintained my distance from H. I sit or stand away from him. I will be civil and abrupt if I have to interact. I will smile, act light and breezy (thanks, Thornton)
- Teacher conferences: coming up soon in March. Will arrive early and sit outside the classroom, so don't have to interact with H. Will direct all conversation to teacher. While walking out, be civil and abrupt.
Couple questions:
1. what to do about packing for kids for vacations with their dad? In the past, I have let him come in the house and assist them so they don't forget anything (and I am not his "assistant" anymore for him to ask me to do his chores). My proposal is to continue to have him pack with them and make sure that I will be out of the house during those times.
Decide what is best for your kids and work from that. The best option for the kids is that they pack and I confirm that they have what they need. That also keeps WH out of the house.
2. S15 enters golf tournaments and the parents walk and watch. My proposal is I maintain my distance from H and walk with other parents or by myself. This may be tough because the H really seems to want to be my friend. Should I tell him something about us not walking together? Or, just be civil and abrupt and move away when it is reasonable to do so?
Which of these is right for you? If one doesn't work can you do the other? What would be the enforcement if you said don't walk together and WH wanted to be 'friends' ? Good point. First, I will be civil, smile and move away from him when it is convenient. If WH doesn’t get the hint, I will tell him that I would prefer to walk by myself or with others.
So, in the last 3-4 weeks, I did a 180 and let go of my anger about the PA to be civil co-parents. I made a couple mistakes encouraging this "friendship" with my H during that time:
- went to his parents' 50th wedding anniversary party (his parents cried they were so happy to see me and both his brothers said that no matter what I was still their "sister"). Since then, I have had no contact and gently told them I was blocking them from facebook until the D was final. In addition, I won't be going to any more family events.
What was your mistake in this exactly? Accepting his invitation to his parent’s anniversary party allowed WH to think he and I could still be friends after our divorce. His family would like me to remain as their daughter-in-law and sister but that is not realistic, especially given his OW. I sent WH the wrong message that I will attend family events with him as friends. It also may have given our children “false hope” about reconciliation.
- I let S12 invite my H over for the first half of the Super Bowl and we watched it as a family. No more family events while PA going on.
Can you put this as a boundary statement? We will not be doing activities as a family while WH is engaged in a PA. It sends the wrong message to the children and I do not want to be friends with WH.
- On Sunday, we had a family lunch to discuss a couple important kid issues that were time sensitive. Next time, an email or phone call will do.
This one is very easy to do as a boundary! We will schedule a phone call or conversation to discuss any critical issues related to the children.
I cannot tell you all how much I appreciate all the feedback, personal stories and generous advice. This "friend zone" issue has been weighing on me heavily. I wasn't sure what to do - I now know that I am the friendly yet not so friendly neighbor. I know most of my boundaries (thanks V!) and will stick with them.
One last question: The H has said in the past that the A is over because the OW is working on her M with her husband. I don't necessarily believe him. Also, he still insists that we are getting divorced. Do I stick with same boundaries if I find out that the A is actually over?
Yes very much so, your boundaries may include apologies, transparency and a letter to OW from WH terminating their R officially. You adapt slowly to the change.
Thank you, thank you!
-------------------------------------------------
Welcome
M 44 H 46 M 20yrs T 25 yrs S15 S12
ILYBINILWY 7/18/15 Move to MBR 9/8/15 Physical Separation 10/10/15 Suspect A 8/2015 Confirm A 12/27/15 D filed by H 2/2/16
One other very important question: My brother-in-law just called me and left a voicemail message. He will be in our town this weekend and wanted to stop and see his nephews (i.e. my kids). What in the heck do I do in this situation? Before my H was such a jerk, I would've been happy to have him over to see the boys. Do I just go ahead and let him come to see them and not talk at all about the D and his idiot brother? Or, do I just say it is not a good time....
M 44 H 46 M 20yrs T 25 yrs S15 S12
ILYBINILWY 7/18/15 Move to MBR 9/8/15 Physical Separation 10/10/15 Suspect A 8/2015 Confirm A 12/27/15 D filed by H 2/2/16
