Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Now, the real work begins..Part II

Tyler,

Thank you for your feedback. I really appreciate because I struggle with it. I didn't know which way to go - keep detaching or be friends so it could develop into more? So confusing since we haven't really interacted in a very long time.

I think I messed up yesterday and got "sucked back in". H reminded me about ordering spirit wear for school before deadline. I said thanks and then offered to order it all together to save money on shipping costs. I felt like his freaking assistant as he sent me emails to do it. Definitely screwed that up, didn't I. He got the benefit of me being his wife even though he doesn't treat me like one. Friend zone for sure. Ugh

I think I may have been misunderstood.

I agree with Tyler and Vanilla. Don't be buddy buddy with H.

But don't act like a pissed off, bitter woman either.

I think you should act happy like you are moving on with your life. No longer pining away (even if you are).

I'll tell you a story about my ex-wife (not WAW that I'm trying to DB now).

My ex-wife left me 10 years ago. Long story...

Anyways, I did all the wrong things - begged, pleaded etc.

She moved to a town about 45 miles away and bought her own house. She took our D with her. I was a mess.

Eventually I started getting over her. I would meet her half way between our houses to exchange D. I was moving on and happy. I felt better and was really letting her go. She was in a relationship with another man at the time.

Anyways, when we would exchange D, I was always in a good mood. I would say hi and smile and ask about D's homework that I needed to help her with over the weekend. We'd say goodbye and I would walk with D happily back to my car.

ExW soon started texting me about random things. I would reply but I really didn't care anymore. Her texts became more and more personal. Then she started texting about her boyfriend and about their problems. Sometimes I would respond, sometimes I didn't. I really didn't care.

Then she dumped him and started pursuing me like crazy. She liked that I was happy and gave off a confident vibe. I was lighter and care free.

It got so bad that she was practically stalking me. I wanted no part of it. I'd moved on. Then she started threatening to kill herself!

She became the LBS! If I wouldn't have been friendly (don't mistake this for being her friend), she never would have been re-attracted to me.

So... give off the vibe that you are enjoying your life without him. That you are excited about your future. That you are having fun and wish the best for him. When you TRULY let go of someone, you don't wish ill will on them. Especially if you have children with them. That's not detachment.

Why would he miss someone he sees as bitter, or angry, or adversarial? That's why I always say be light and breezy because I've seen it work in my own sitch before.

Thank you, Thornton. I appreciate you sharing your story so I could understand more clearly. It seems I'm walking a fine line and I definitely don't want to give him the impression I want to be his friend after what he's done. But I also don't want to be bitter and angry in front of the kids. Light and breezy sounds like a good plan! All of this really helps me. I'm going to definitely reach out more on this board if he continues to send friendly texts to see how I should respond....until I get more comfortable about how to handle. He's off to sunny Florida (supposedly), so my guess is the communication will stop for awhile. Really grateful for all the support.

It does feel like a fine line while you are figuring out how you need to be. If you go back far enough in my thread there is a post I said the exact same thing.


I really do understand this statement. I loved it and I still struggle with it too. However, is it going to develop into more right now? Do you want it to develop into more right now? this sounds harsh, it hurts when I think about it too, he is having an affair and you want to be friends and hope it recreates love.
Being friends and having an expectation that it will make things all better does not help!

I didn't like hearing it either, it is reality broke. And I can tell you I still think that way sometimes too.

I have a little story too, it isn't as good as thortons, tho I have lived through the same thing Thorton described above.
Anyway. The other day W called for something. I don't remember. I didn't answer.
I then got a text of a pic of a birthday invite S3 got at daycare. His first official bday invite and he is excited. She called again and I answered. We talked about the boys. And had a nice talk. This is also the talk where she asked how I was and it floored me.
I felt good after that talk. Then I thought to myself, I should call a florist and have flowers sent to her work. Not put my name on it. Just a nice gesture... Then I thought about it.
Why do this? Because I want her to notice me and get a positive reaction. I would be manipulating.
Does she want this from me? NO! The first thing she would do is ask OM if he sent them. He may say yes cause I imagine he is a douche, or if not she would know it was me and that's pursuing.
Is it going to help anything? No! What possible positive would have come from it? She give up waywardness and comes back? Not likely.

My point is I struggle with it too, stop and think of its best for you. Not for DB. Not for M. Is it best for you to allow this person and all the baggage they have back into your life right now?

Broke

Is it boundaries with WH you mean or in general?

These are ideas, suggestions ok for behaviours?

it would be different boundaries if WH was not in an A or if there wete no children

Texts

About the kids- immdediately if emergency or their welfare courteous and concerned about children
About the kids trivia- factual only and delayed (such as where are shoes.....) more trivial the more the delay reply factually
About R-ignore
About Legal- through Solicitor
About other matters of WS with a delay of a day or so

Conversations
Limited to kids only concerned and concentrating on that issue
practical issues until D
No R talk
No D fins talk through L

Meetings
Only if absolutely necessary and the friendly neighbour (civil but abrupt), smile you are happy

Sample of Boundaries as stated to my WH

WH whilst you are having an A and have sacked me as your W I do not intend to be your friend and whilst I will be cordial that is the limit.

WH if you are in an A our contact is limited to the kids

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Friendly Neighbour

Different posters mean different things with this, so it helps if we define friendly neighbour:

So when I say friendly neighbour I don't mean come in for tea type. Today we are having a BBQ-would you like a burger?

I mean, lovely weather today, must dash. Your roses are looking good, hope you are well today, bye. Saw you broke your foot, hope it gets better. Condolence card on a bereavement if appropriate from you and kids but not Valentine or Christmas card.

Smile and look pleasant, no looks to WH that would freeze a troll face.

No discussing your sitch with others to vent, 'oh yes I am pleased WH got that promotion now about.....' and 'we are cordial thank you and you say you got a new car.......'

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Enforcing your boundary

I always think its easier to consider setting boundaries from considering the situation. If you are triggered the less contact the better and the firmer the boundary. If your WH is respectful of your boundaries then more cordiality. If disrespectful, strengthen them.

Here is one interaction between WH and I on the phone.

MY WH said: when this is over we can still be friends and go on holiday. I will keep the keys to the flat abroad in case.

My response: I can see why you might like that WH and as long as you are drinking heavily and having OWs I will not be going on holiday with you.

WH: Stuff you, you know I don't do alone, that is why I need OWs

My response: If you keep swearing at me then I will put down the phone

WH: You are unreasonable and rude

My response: I am disappointed you feel that way, that isn't how I see it. I must go to work now. Its a lovely day enjoy your golf. Bye

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You will find a series on my sitch about WH collecting his things from the house where increasing stronger boundaries were needed.

Firstly WH was allowed into the house at prearranged times
WH turned up one evening whilst I was in bed, let himself in.

Big boundary infringement, bolts whilst I am in the house

WH continues to turn up unannounced
Further enforcement Alarm codes reset WH can collect from Foyer or at prearranged times when codes will be off

WH still turns up unreasonably and whilst I am there
Enforcement I pack his stuff stuff for collection from the outhouse gym

WH turns up without prior notice in the middle of a Sunday afternoon and I am having a BBQ when I specifically said you can collect another time. Gets aggressive by text
His stuff is moved to storage

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I always recommend Al Turtle on Boundaries, try googling him.

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So

What are your boundaries with WH on the following and how will you enforce?

ensure that your boundary is about the things for you (not WH) and you can enforce it

Your kids, handovers, birthdays and family events

Your Fins and Legals

R talks with WH

Lets frame those boundaries and the enforcement of them.

As always you can say no, i will not be offended.

Hope this helps

V

Grits teeth

Wish there was an edit

Your might be:

WH if you are in an A our contact is limited to the kids

I have no kids.......

V

Hi broke. I see your difficulty with boundaries and how to handle being friendly vs. being friends. These are issues that I am thinking about and trying to work through.

I'm still living with my WW so, in some ways, it's a bit tougher. I don't initiate any type of conversation with her but I do respond to her conversation while trying to smile and be affirming. I don't really know if I get it right all the time. I sometimes wonder if I'm being too distant and aloof (which I can be without realizing it). I think I'm getting better at walking this line with practice and I think you will as well.

Good luck walking the line!!! I know you can do it.

Sorry to hijack, but Vanilla?

Can you pop over to my thread and look at my situation for past few weeks?
I don't believe there is an OW at this time, but I'm worried that maybe I'm allowing H to cake eat because I'm confusing positive interactions with H possibly fighting with himself about reconsidering R, but too stubborn to admit or go with it. I don't know if I need to adjust boundaries? Please and thank you.

Tyler and Vanilla,

Thank you so much for your posts. It really helps to have you share your personal experiences for me to draw from. It is invaluable.

Tyler - you are absolutely right. I don't want to be friends with who my H is right now. That is a great way to approach the situation.

Vanilla - I can't tell you how much I appreciate you taking all that time to help me out. Really very kind of you. I love your ideas and suggestions because this is what I have been struggling with over the past week (i.e. friends vs. civil co-parents).

Texts and emails:

Agree with your suggestions 100%
- will respond immediately if emergency regarding children
- will respond when convenient for me about trivial matters
- will not respond to anything regarding our R (although there has been nothing about that in weeks, so probably not a concern right now)
- will not respond to anything regarding our D or finances (I will let my L handle that especially because my H is a very savvy attorney and he tries to "bully" me about legal issues)

Conversations (very rare - usually communicate through text or email):

- will limit to concerns only regarding the kids or pertinent issues regarding the house, belongings, etc.
- will not talk about D (leave to L)
- will try to validate any feelings/concerns but not discuss anything with regards to R (but, again, he hasn't broached this topic in weeks)

Meetings:

- will limit to concerns only regarding very important, time-sensitive issues about the kids
- will smile, be abrupt yet civil

Specific boundaries with regards to the kids:

- handovers: we both drop off the kids at the front or back door. No conversations or entry into each others' homes; just a wave if we see each other.

- birthdays for kids: we had family dinner on S15 birthday. Was horrible interaction. Will not be an issue until May but will inform H that we will do separate birthday celebrations with the boys.

- family events: The H and I will not attend family events with in-laws. (My family hates H right now; his family misses me, but I have blocked them on facebook and informed them that we won't be in contact until the D is final)

- School events/kids activities: I have maintained my distance from H. I sit or stand away from him. I will be civil and abrupt if I have to interact. I will smile, act light and breezy (thanks, Thornton)

- Teacher conferences: coming up soon in March. Will arrive early and sit outside the classroom, so don't have to interact with H. Will direct all conversation to teacher. While walking out, be civil and abrupt.


Couple questions:

1. what to do about packing for kids for vacations with their dad? In the past, I have let him come in the house and assist them so they don't forget anything (and I am not his "assistant" anymore for him to ask me to do his chores). My proposal is to continue to have him pack with them and make sure that I will be out of the house during those times.

2. S15 enters golf tournaments and the parents walk and watch. My proposal is I maintain my distance from H and walk with other parents or by myself. This may be tough because the H really seems to want to be my friend. Should I tell him something about us not walking together? Or, just be civil and abrupt and move away when it is reasonable to do so?

So, in the last 3-4 weeks, I did a 180 and let go of my anger about the PA to be civil co-parents. I made a couple mistakes encouraging this "friendship" with my H during that time:

- went to his parents' 50th wedding anniversary party (his parents cried they were so happy to see me and both his brothers said that no matter what I was still their "sister"). Since then, I have had no contact and gently told them I was blocking them from facebook until the D was final. In addition, I won't be going to any more family events.

- I let S12 invite my H over for the first half of the Super Bowl and we watched it as a family. No more family events while PA going on.

- On Sunday, we had a family lunch to discuss a couple important kid issues that were time sensitive. Next time, an email or phone call will do.


I cannot tell you all how much I appreciate all the feedback, personal stories and generous advice. This "friend zone" issue has been weighing on me heavily. I wasn't sure what to do - I now know that I am the friendly yet not so friendly neighbor. I know most of my boundaries (thanks V!) and will stick with them.

One last question: The H has said in the past that the A is over because the OW is working on her M with her husband. I don't necessarily believe him. Also, he still insists that we are getting divorced. Do I stick with same boundaries if I find out that the A is actually over?

Thank you, thank you!

G8r,

Thanks for the support. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to still be living in the same home and "walking that line"! You are right - I can do it. It helps to have people on here sharing their experiences to help me prepare and stick to boundaries. It is so incredibly helpful!