Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Ojap's Story

My eyes are wide open....I really am struggling with wanting to snoop. Because I have confronted and 'read into' several messages, even from some of her friends (accusing her of having plans to fully divorce, etc) she has her communications on lock down.

I would literally have to hack her phone, or put a network sniffer on our home system. That seems pretty obtrusive.

Some more background:

She had an emotionally and sometimes physically abusive Father (alcohol involved). He was very controlling, passive aggressive, and manipulative. Her father then found 'God', and put a stop to the physical abuse and alcohol around Ws 12 or 13th birthday. Emotional control still present.

However...her mother and fathers relationship was very strained. They divorced less than a month after W and I were married and Ws younger sister was out of house. Shortly after that (6 months)...her father found another Woman...but things were so new/fresh for W, that the relationship was strained...and about 6 years ago her Father completely shut her out. No returned calls, no returned mail., etc.

Here is where Ws inability to be assertive kicks in...like she is now 'finding her voice'. That she can be/feel exactly who she wants to be. She contends that she allowed me to 'mold her' into the person I wanted her to be. I admit that I have a strong personality. My family voices their opinions, we love to debate, etc. So...I carried that over into my MR.

So...because of that...W is now saying she wants to be 'alone'. So she can find herself, so she can feel all the things she wants to feel without walking around on eggshells or feeling guilty. She states her 3 feelings, in order, are: Failure, Guilt, and Worthlessness.

At any rate...thank you for your thoughts TxHubby. I think my worst fear is EA or PA....and I want so badly to believe her that one isn't happening...but it is tough. I simply want the truth so I can move forward either way!

Hi Pajo, welcome aboard. I hope you will post every day. Be sure to read the links in Cadet's post.

Well, I certainly understand a MR going through "seasons". I hope this season does not become a crisis. To be honest, the way she's protecting her phone raises some flags.

To get a better picture, I have several questions. Are you a SAHD?

Approximately, how much alone time do you and your W normally have together during a week's time?

Does she seem to be resentful, disgusted or turned off toward you? Is it easy for you to set her off? Do you feel she speaks somewhat disrespectful to you, or does she seem a little superior b/c of her job position? Out of the two of you, who would you say is more charge (or has the final word) of the home, family, finances, and MR?

Whenever a spouse begins to protect their messages, it is an alarm. Flirty messages may not seem inappropriate to you, or you may be trying to excuse them. Personally, I do think it is inappropriate for co-workers to send those type of messages. We have seen this too many times here on the board. In fact, I think it is a sign she's walking on dangerous grounds. They may excuse it by saying it's all in fun, but it is still inappropriate and if that's the reason she's hiding her phone, then I dare say there is more to it. So, beware.

The more she wants to have privacy, the greater the concern should be that she is either looking, or already has her eyes on someone else. It doesn't mean it has progressed to an A, but it could be leading to an EA. Does she spend the night away from home very often? Does she work a long distance from home?

Last question for now, how is the sex life?

Thx for posting Sandi,

Well i think i would characterize this season as a crisis. I'll try and hit your questions.

I am not a SAHD:...But I do have a flexible job. I take 2/3 girls to school in AM. Pick them all up by 2pm and do h/w, fix dinner, etc every day. I do 85% of doctor visits, work from home when they are sick, etc.

Over the past 4 months...our time together is limited to 'family time'. We basically only do things with our girls together. Also marriage counseling. We are basically separated, but in the same house. She states she is 'separated' from me in her heart.

She is not disrespectful towards me, she has told me that she gets angry when she is around me because of the past hurts (me not yielding and controlling her). My job has been an issue in the past, and though she loves her job, she wishes mine would pay more so she could work less (even though we both decided on our current situation). But...she hasn't 'shamed' me for it, i don't think.

I have been pretty assertive, and stand my ground on things. She is an excellent mother, and I defer on some things w/ our girls because I do trust her judgement there. I have always been the pursuer in our MR. Even during our current crisis...I'm the one on message boards, reading books, and 'making progress' in our MC sessions.

In regards to the cell phone, some history:

2001: W and I are dating in undergrad. She admits to me that another student made a move on her, and they kissed. She shut it down, but when telling me about it had a panic attack. We moved passed it, got engaged, etc.

2010: W is in grad school. While she is tucking kids in bed, I see her phone light up. I look over as I'm getting something from fridge. I see following interaction.

School Preceptor: Do you have time to talk?
W: Can't right now

I stew on it for 4 hours, looking through phone bills...wake her up in the middle of the night to confront her. She denies, is hurt that I don't trust her. I eventually let it go and move on.

2014: Guy named 'Will' (apparently 'older and overweight flirter' colleague) would text her on weekends. "Happy Sunday". "What are you up to? I'm having a beer watching the game." I get all confrontational again, because it seems inappropriate. She is again frustrated at my inability to trust and the violation of her privacy.

2015: When her gall bladder was acting up...we were at a swim meet. Her sugar dropped, had to call ambulance. She had previously mentioned wanted certain colleagues to be her Docs if she had to go...and for me to reach out to her friend (Single/engaged guy). I asked for her passcode while she is on stretcher...she gives it. I jump in car to follow ambulance to hospital and begin to notify the friend. After I find his TM thread in her phone...I decide to scroll back through conversations. Mostly all business...but one interaction scared me. W found out that colleague liked Super Mario Kart. W and I used to play all the time. She commented on how good she was and how she should 'bring it over' so they could play. This text message happened while I was away on business and girls were with me. (Oddly...W and I sexted that week). So...after she recovers a bit...I confront her about it. Tell her it makes me nervous. She is sad at this point...says I don't trust her. That she hasn't had an EA or PA. That she 'just can't keep doing this.'


So...approx 1 month after this...the colleague moves away, and then the wife pretty much shuts down.

Finally: Sex life = once/month for the past 4 months. Alcohol induced every time, w/ her saying 'this is just sex'. 'I don't want to lead you on'.

Also...missed a question or two...

Wife has spent the night 3 or 4 times in the past 3 or 4 months at her girlfriend's house. Says she doesn't want to risk driving after a few glasses of wine, be on the road too late, etc.

She doesn't work long distance from home. 7:30-5:30 most days (M-F)

She does go out to Drug Rep dinners and work get togethers probably 2-3 times/month. Will come home from work briefly, be home at 10:30 or later (1 or 2 once).

She notes that this is part of her GAL. Because she would always feel too guilty about not spending time with our girls in the past. These type of outings I believe I have always tried to encourage...though she says I didn't.

Pajo, read and reread the threads on pursuer and distance relationships. Also look at the book ... That may help you. The more you read the more you will understand. As GI Joe would say, Knowing is half the battle. Make sure to read, read, read... then act accordingly although counter intuitively.

Work through the DR and DB books don't just read. Think about your goals, think about the road signs and think about your 180's. Decide what you will try and then when doing them monitor. It maybe the slightest sign of working or it may be big signs of not working. Then rework your approach.

There are vets on here that can give you far better advice, than I. Listen to them. Finally, read others threads maybe you will see a mistake they make and can stop yourself from making the same mistake.

Thanks TimR,

Good advice. I find myself so concerned w/ whether or not their is an actual EA or PA, that I forget to work on myself. I forget to do my 180, GAL and DBing techniques.

Thanks for the input, man!

Another insight into our MR convos concerning an EA or PA...she ends up really breaking down and saying how 'alone' and 'lonely' she is. How she has nobody because she doesn't fully trust me any more.

So...are all these EA/PA red flags also red flags for clinical depression and the loneliness she is struggling with?

You dont need to read the book - the thread has everything you need in it.

After I just spent the entire weekend at a swim meet, I know that can really be exhausting.

And YES - knowledge is Power!

IDK if they are red flags for depression or EA PA. Someone on here can let advise you better on that than I. Right now though I would think you need to stop pursuing and working on your 180s. The confrontations are pressure and control. They also push W away more. I wish I would have known that before I made those mistakes.

While it is easier said than done, think about it this way... What are you going to get out of the confrontation if she is cheating. Most likely a denial and how will that make you feel. Most likely unsatisfied and lied to. So what will you gain by it? Nothing really except to push her away.

Also if she is not in an EA or PA, imagine how she feels being accused. Maybe I am wrong on this, maybe look at Sandi's threads. I just see no use in the confrontations.

I think you are prob right, Tim. Father gave me similar advice. Stated that if she is indeed in an A, that it will eventually come out. That I need to work on myself, and my relationship w/ my kids. Make myself and them the priority.

Although I KNOW this to be the right course of action...it is still tough to 'shake off' the suspicion and work towards personal goals.

The 'phone' thing does get to the heart of our respective issues. For W, it is her becoming independent, assertive, and not controlled or manipulated by me. For me, it is the fear of losing her, not having her love, betrayal, and the destruction of our family unit.

Trying to decide if I should bring it up in MC or not...Hmmmm