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Bets-
To be honest, your observations that you have to "tone yourself down" around Mr. W worries me. After all, you can't do that forever...that would create a HUGE pile of resentment for you, and just imagine if he was home for real...could you really stifle your sparkly self all the time like that? Any R (IMHO) has to be able to allow for the full, separate personalities of the people involved.

If either person can't handle that, out of fear or what have you, there is a serious problem...which might be something MC will really help. But not being yourself (or your full self, anyway) around your H...I trust your judgement above many others', but do you really have to do that?
I would state, too, nothing in this post is meant to offend.
Hugs,
Myrrh

Betsey-
Hope you understand that I never would want you to feel as though you have to explain yourself! Not my intention at all.

In true Betsey fashion, you have been very forthcoming.
I really need to take time to mull it all over. As I am going to be late for work, I'll do that later!

One thing did jump out at me:

Quote:

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For the few years prior to his exit, Mr. W. used to get pissed when I'd return a call to a friend or devote a half hour to writing a letter... I found this perturbing, because he was usually outside sulking with his beer and playing with his moustache. Avoiding me. So why did it piss him off that I was doing something important to me?

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This, Betsey, was the biggest part of the downfall of my good pal, the dentist. His W was constantly doing something- almost always for someone else though. He felt totally left out. And yes, it included simply making phone calls when he was home. He considered that "his" time. My H is the same way. My sis and I talk daily. It irritates him to no end if he comes in from work and I am on the phone. He wants (needs) my atention then. The old me thought, "Who is HE to dictate my phone time?" The new me?
"He needs this time with me." I do my calling to my sis when he isn't around, and I stick to that rule now. ANd, I go on this BB when he is not here. The second he is here, it is time for him. It still allows me lots of time. Yes, I know you work more, so this is trickier for you.
I just couldn't help but seeing that you're thinking, "He's off on his own anyway! Why can't I be on the phone/letter writing?"
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
Was he always sulking, so you went ahead and did this,
or
did he begin the sulking as resignation to the fact that you were going to do it anyway?
I see a guy, based on your other observations about him liking the Donna Reed stay at home mom, that wants your company, and is hurt when he's not the focus.
No, you can't and shouldn't give up your life, and your job. Is there a way around this?

Hell, I don't know. Like I said, it was easy for me. And I chose that route.
What is reasonable for Betsey?

P.S. Mer wants a big fat bow on the butt of the dress. Any other requests????

Pam...totally hijacking here on my continuous search for wisdom.

As much as I am scared that I have given the impression that all my H and I do is brawl, that is honestly not the case. The majority of our time is spent enjoying each other. I was really struck by your description of how your H "needs the time." I never realized it, but my H thrives on attention - snuggling, being listened to, getting massages. I think when our son was born and it was harder for me to give him that time/attention, he had some real feelings of neglect. I can't imagine how Mr. W must feel, since you, Betsey, have about 850 things demanding your attention at any given moment. Maybe you could set aside time that would be only yours and his?
I am just very wowed by the concept of seeing things differently - letting go of bitterness and responding out of love. (that has no relationship to Bets or her situation, just a me comment)
You go, Pam!
Myrrh

You know that you are really a QUEEN or DIVA when your humble servants come on bended knee apologizing for needing your wisdom. Myself included here oh exalted madam!!

You've earned the right to be QUEEN B. All hail the DB QB!!

Myrrh--Don't worry! I don't have any resentment expressing my more subdued side for him. It's actually a really great way for me to keep the crazymaker in check.

Pam--A bow on the butt? That highlights a part of my body that is pretty obvious, but I'll go for it in the fugly sense. How about an empire waste to make it shapeless?

You are so right about having to change to accommodate the needs of others. The issue about not devoting time to him was made (no hammered) by him in MC last summer. Believe me, I was listening to every word.

I have made numerous attempts to reassure him that I would find a way to compromise. In fact, since he brought this subject up in MC, when he has been over eating dinner with us, I've either let the phone go to voicemail or told the friend I was in the middle of something and would return the call at a mutually agreeable time.

I am also computer addicted. I am MORE than willing to give up the addiction for more tangible affirmation. This is not a deal breaker at all--in fact, I'd like nothing more than to turn it off at home and get what I crave from him.

Funny thing, though. When told him I would honor his requests, he moved the bar on me--telling me he still didn't want my company. I know I've mentioned here more than a few times that it all came down to dating each other again... something MC highly encouraged but Mr. W. refused to do.

Face it, this guy really doesn't want to be with me. At least for the past few years and right now. If he did, he could have shown a glimpse of that by asking us to go to dinner to celebrate my birthday... that would have been easy to do and I would have jumped at the chance.

And seen it as a baby step in good faith.

Pam, I am still willing to seek to understand what he really wants and needs from me. So far, the path has only led to dead ends... every time I see his side of things and agree to honor the request, he changes positions on me.

So while this isn't really a game of the marital limbo, I wonder if his complaints about me and our life are merely a smokescreen for the truth? That he really wants to be single but doesn't want to work to get there?

I am really not in a position to offer advice in this sitch, mainly because I have come to the same conclusion in my own and have not completely accepted that fact.

All I would ask is that you address the questions that keep popping up in my head:

What happens to the truly innocent in this case, your daughter. Will she be better off.

Will Mr. W move back to CA and away from you and, like in my sitch be too far for quick, casual contact. I know you don't have control over this, but it needs addressing.

Since the decision, are you sleeping? Anxious? Calm? Or like me, a troublesome guilt.

I do not want to imply that I favor you choosing one over the other. These are just things going on in my head these past weeks......

Dazed,

Wow, I'm sorry I've given everyone the impression that I'm taking action and starting this ball rolling at the moment. I'm not! Let the Easter parade begin instead...

I'm still heading back to MC, as planned, and hoping that he will feel as though we deserve a fighting chance to work things out.

IF he doesn't elect to join me in the next few months, it will help me get to the point where I am content and ready to make a move--whatever that move may be.

I'm just at the point of gaining clarity on the truth of things. Finally understanding that we are no longer operating on the baby step theory, because he has been walking in place for several years now.

The point of DB, at least for me, was to acknowledge my contributions to the demise in our M and make changes that I knew were sore spots in his eyes. Those glaring faults were: my bad temper, my controlling words and behaviors, my unwillingness to let him voice his displeasure without defending myself (or attacking him in retaliation), and of course my crazymaking.

I have worked REALLY hard to overcome those character defects. Face it, I will never be cured of a few of them, but I work at them daily. And I pray to God for help each and every day.

He's made some gains himself. Those positives are: being more honest with me about how he feels (not showing that passive-aggressive side of himself as often), acknowledging when he's setting me up (this is a real big one), being available to the girls more and making an honest attempt to make better choices. I recognize that he has made some changes, but many of them have been a direct result of me changing my behaviors and actions first--therefore, changing the dynamics between the 2 of us.

If anyone had an inclination to move, it would be me. I've tossed around the idea of moving back home to VA to be around family who can help me. His boyhood home was MT, and he has no desire to move closer to family or friends. He loves Colorado and this is where he will stay.

For the record, I love Colorado too. I don't want to move anywhere... at least for the time being.

As far as our daughters go, we have been able to maintain a modicum of congeniality and cooperation where they are concerned. They have always taken first priority over everything before, during and after our separation.

As far as D7 goes, we have a special needs trust established for her. The court will make sure that we both take care of her using that vehicle. I'm not worried about that.

I sleep well, friend. Well, last night D7 gave me a few kicks in my back that kept me awake for awhile, but otherwise, I have no issues. I look myself in the eye every morning and know that I have not been unfair, unreasonable or unkind to him. I feel good about what is in my heart and soul.

I think I've given him the benefit of the doubt more often than not. And when there is a pickle and I have to choose between what I want or think and what might be the truth, I err on the side of caution and concede to him. I don't think I could be any more fair to him and the girls than I already am.

At some point, my life is going to have to include my own wants, needs and desires--things I've postponed in the interest of the family. But at some point, someone is going to have to make the first move.

You can't just stare at a chessboard without making a move indefinitely. So far, all we've moved and lost are the pawns... expendable little pieces they are. But it's time to start moving the rooks and knights in the hopes of getting to the check and checkmate positions. Right?

I've been playing this same chess game for almost 2 years. Actually, I think I've been in the game but unknowingly for more than that... but since I didn't realize I was playing until October 2002, I'll be fair.

No decisions are forthcoming right now. I'm hanging out on the other end of the fence just waiting to see which side has the best lawn for me...

Good clarification....

You...A temper...who'd a thought!!

Hey Betsey, just finally finding time to catch up on your sitch. Whew, finally did some WORK at work.

It sounds like you have the strength and determination to come to the right conclusion for you and your family. I envy your strength. Although I think I could do the same, let go if needed, I would probably break down in the end.

Mr W sounds depressed from your description. You certainly can't be his court jester. I hope it works out with him, but I don't fear for you.

Hey, my H is an engineer also.

I'm trying my best to keep up my PMA now, it does seem as if the whole BB is down. Well, I'm up, so if anyone needs some cheering up, hopefully I can do it. (Not as well as Dazed, though, gotta love that guy.)

Shoot are they all engineers??????