Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Letting go, finally

Here's a quick summary of the big things I have learned so far throughout my DB journey, roughly in the order I learned it:

- I have work to do on becoming more empathetic. I have deep issues with emotional self-validation stemming from birth trauma and a mother who was emotionally unresponsive to me. Since I have trouble empathizing with myself, I also have trouble empathizing with others. As a result of this, I haven't always been emotionally responsive and understanding toward my W. Or anyone in my life, for that matter.
- Throughout the R, my critical and demanding behavior made me less attractive to my W. I had underlying expectations throughout the R and didn't always respect her free will. I have work to do on communicating my needs in ways that are more respectful of her free will.
- My own fear of being alone led me to lower my standards and tolerate red flag behavior from the beginning. I never set any clear boundaries or expectations before we got married because I was afraid it would push her away and I was too attached. I wasn't objective or honest about the seriousness of the R problems that I observed from the beginning, so I swept them under the carpet.
- My W has never learned to hold up her part of what it takes to keep a M healthy. Given her upbringing, it's not her fault, but she is responsible for doing something about it and our M will never be healthy unless she does. I always thought I could influence her and motivate her learn this, but I can't. She has to decide she wants to on her own.
- No matter how excruciatingly it hurts to be in limbo, or how certain I think I am that my W is the one who is primarily responsible for our R problems, I could not live with the decision to end the M myself if it did not come from a certainty that I obtained from higher wisdom and grace.

Spent the day with my son. Did a lot of thinking about everything, trying to get a grasp on something that I can focus on which would carry me out of the hole I'm in. Focusing on being a good dad doesn't seem to help. I am feeling very depressed right now. Lots of crying yesterday and today, lots of soul searching, but coming up empty handed. Life wasn't perfect, but I was happy 3 months ago. Now my life doesn't seem worth living. I'm worried that I am slipping back into the depression that I was in 10 years ago before I met my W. I might be smart, but I am just not emotionally strong. I just don't feel like I have the strength to DB. I just want to give up, crawl into a hole and disappear.

Hey Jguy,

I won't give any DB'ing advice since I am a newb but I am worried about you. Can you do something physical to focus your energies else where (ie gym, run or even a walk)? Do you have a close friend or sibling you can talk to? I don't recall but do you see an IC? Maybe it is time to schedule an apt.

Try and stay busy is the only advice I can give.

It is funny you say 'I was happy 3 months ago'. I used to think along these lines as well. But I do not think I was really happy 3 months before BD. I was probably in a state of denial at that point/ Maybe a year before, but not 3 months.

Stay strong jguy.

This is actually a good sign. It means you're not delusional.

Sadness is when you have a problem. Depression is when you feel you are a problem.

This situation is about as hard as anything most people have to deal with in their lives. You would be a sociopath if you didn't feel shattered. Or you'd be in deep denial...or dissociating from emotions and trying to 'live in your head' and just run your brain at a million miles per hour trying to 'figure it all out' while really just avoiding the emotions demanding they be heard. Any of those things would be destructive, and along the lines of medicating.

Instead you are taking it all on the chin. No medication. No running. No other women. No alcohol. No mind games to pretend a pile of crap isn't a pile of crap. Just sitting with a loss so great it takes more than a year to even comprehend it.

Not much fun, but I can promise you that you can get through it. My IC always tells me 'feelings can't make you melt'. They aren't always fun, but they won't kill you. And when you get through a night like tonight, you will have much less FEAR. Because 90% of fear comes from being afraid that you'll run into emotions you can't handle. When you handle the worst they've got and hold up, the fear goes away, because you know you can handle anything. Things will still be tough, but once you're dealing with the reality of the loss, and not terror and shadows, you'll be amazed at how resilient you are.

For now, though, I'm wishing you strength. No one should have to be where you are. Unfortunately the world is imperfect, the love we have for each other is too often broken and interrupted...all the more reason to appreciate the good will of others, be they your friends or family, or those on this board. Take card J.

Thanks for reaching out to me, pinn. I have been doing physical things, skiing yesterday with friends and today with my son. I do have several close friends I can talk to. I spoke with my Dad today, he's a great father nowadays (wasn't always) and has been supporting me all along through this. I have been seeing IC regularly too.

Thankfully, those depressed feelings passed after I spent an hour this evening reading through all that I had written in my journal for the past two months. It gave me some good perspective, and as I did this, I wrote down a new set of goals based on everything I have learned so far.

Since I was depressed for such a long time back in 2005-ish, and I remember just how endlessly dark and lonely that was, I'm very scared of being thrown back into that god awful place. Thankfully, every time I have felt that way since the BD 2 months ago, it has never lasted more than a day or so before my feelings change and give way to a different state. It's painful, but at least it's changing and evolving. I hope it stays that way and doesn't get stuck like it did 10 years ago. Depression is an awful place and I really, really don't want to go back there.

That same thought occurred to me while I was reading my journal, Zeus. As I was reading what I wrote over the past 2 months, I could see how I was still in partial denial by holding on to the idea that my world could somehow stay the same and I wouldn't have to let it all go. I was questioning whether this nightmare was really happening. Right now, I am about three weeks into the process of accepting that it is so, but I feel like my emotional self still has a ways to go to fully process all of the ramifications of what it all means.



Thank you for the validation, Zeus.

Validation really helps to make my own emotional experience feel real. I don't know if this is a common problem, but validating my own emotional experience has always been a challenge for me. It's embarrassing to admit just how much I still need other people's empathy to realize that I even have an emotional self. When others verbalize what they observe I must be feeling, it makes my own emotional experience feel real. I can tell by observing other people that it isn't normal for this to be such a challenge. Most other people seem to have a normal instinct of self-validation that never developed properly in me. Without the external validation, it's as though I don't even recognize that my emotional self exists. I think this must have something to do with my birth trauma and my emotionally absent mother.

An unfortunate side effect of my lack of self-empathy is that I also lack empathy for others. I have no idea how I'm going to heal this... It is very daunting, and I'm afraid that if I don't, I may never become empathetic enough to be a good enough partner to anyone. If this is indeed one of the main reasons that my W fell out of love with me, it just seems so unfair. It's not my fault that I have this problem. Yet I'm stuck bearing the responsibility of figuring out how to heal it.

I have shed many tears over this recently. I can clearly see that this is the core of my childhood wound that prevents me from having better relationships. I am scared that I will fail to heal this wound, or that it will end up taking me the rest of my life, and by the time I have healed it, life will have passed me by. I have been praying for help with this, a lot.

I suppose I'm better off than many, who remain blind to their wounds and never do realize what is undermining their relationships. Awareness is only the first step, though. Figuring out what actions to take and having the discipline and courage to take them is what I'm really scared I won't be able to do.

Update on the past 4 days: Not much has changed. I continue to settle into the new reality of feeling very disconnected from my W and accepting that. This is prompting me to turn into myself more and look for resolution within myself instead of looking for resolution with my W. The emotional flipping back and forth isn't happening anymore. I am completely out of the denial and I'm seeing things for what they really are, and I don't feel attracted to my W anymore. This is making it much easier to detach.

When I periodically think about it, I feel increasingly certain that D may be the right way forward for us, but I'm still committed to taking things slowly as it is a decision not to be taken lightly. My main hesitation continues to be the fact that I would really regret ending the M without feeling that we had really given it our best shot. Since she still hasn't reached a point where she will agree to NC and make an honest effort to begin reconciliation, all I can do is work on myself as best I can alone. I have been doing this in the past several days. I saw a different (male) IC yesterday who was highly recommended my multiple people I trust. He helped me gain a new perspective on the root cause of some of my core issues. Everything he said I already knew, but it helped to confirm I'm on the right track and to reveal a different angle from which I can approach my inner work. It is most likely that I have years of this inner work ahead of me to fully heal my childhood wounds, but I feel good about myself for starting to take these baby steps now. Other than stopping my pursing/fixing behavior with my W and letting go of the hope that my M will be saved, I haven't yet identified any other 180s that I could perform immediately. I am open to suggestions!

Focusing on myself is what I need to be doing regardless of whether or not we save the M, so rushing the D process doesn't seem to solve any real purpose. However, I continue to feel uncertain about how long is long enough. If things continue to feel stuck like nothing is changing and my W is just taking advantage of the extra time by continuing to avoid while she is in contact with the OM, then I may at some point decide it's long enough and make the decision myself. I had previously speculated that this might come as soon as the end of January, but I like the idea of taking it one day at a time.

We had another MC session on Wednesday where we each took a turn to communicate where we are at. I stated that I would feel deep regret if our M ended without having really given it our best shot, but that I would ultimately accept it and move on if it came to that. It seems wise to me that we really should try our best, but unless she also feels that way and chooses to make a genuine effort (which would need to include NC with OM), there's really no point. Committing to this effort wouldn't mean making any permanent commitment, and we are still free to decide it's not working. The worst case outcome would be that we may learn some valuable skills together that would help us as co-parents should we still end up deciding to D. So there's really nothing to lose by trying, other than the fact that she would drift out of contact with the OM for awhile and my "lose her chance" to be with him. To this, my W stated that although she agrees with this logic, she feels a reluctance but can't really put her finger on why. She needs more time to contemplate what the source of the reluctance is.

During the MC session, my W proceeded to be brutally honest about where she is at. Unlike some WWs, she didn't blame me for anything, painted me as a wonderful guy, and wants to take full responsibility for the fact that this mess is mostly due to her issues. She reiterated that she just doesn't feel it for me, can't remember ever feeling it, and feels like most of who she is has been living a life outside the M for quite some time now. For the most part, she has decided that it's really not looking like the M can be saved, but she is scared s#$tless about moving forward with D. She was honest about the fact that she would much rather continue to avoid facing the difficult decision ahead of her by continuing to escape. Obviously, this isn't the responsible thing to do and she knows it, but it is all very daunting to her. I expressed empathy for for how hard this must be for her, and that all of us go through things like this in life. She really appreciated the compassion I was showing, but had to admit that she just didn't feel like she could receive it. This pretty much sums up where we are stuck.

So are you suggesting that you arent to blame for the failure of your marriage at all? That all you need to do is leave her alone, wait a few days/weeks/months/years and eventually, all will be well? I cant imagine thats at all true.

You say your W lost her attraction to you over the years. What would you say led to that? What qualities or characteristics of yours contributed to the downfall of the R you had with your W? At the same time, what characteristics ofyourself would you like to improve? How do you want JGuy 2.0 to look? How can you get there?


I have a hard time basing your decision to divorce on whether or not your W is doing or not doing something. It feels like you are using it as a "wake up call" for her. Regardless, theres no point in setting a time limit. As Zues wrote before, you are only setting yourself up for failure and disappointment and regret.


What EXACTLY does this mean? What EXACTLY are you suggesting is your best shot? Can you put that into words and quantify it?


OK...you started the thread "WW is onboard with trying to save the M" on December 11. Thats 6 weeks ago today. She still hasnt gone NC with OM. And youre still pussyfooting around her trying to get her to stop. Why are you still pushing her to do this or that? I think it's clear she isnt ready. So, move forward with your life. You are sitting around stuck in this rut because....you are sitting around stuck in this rut. Im not saying to file for D, but you need to get your focus off of her issues and start living, man. Tell me about your GAL activities. Tell me about your relationship with your son. Tell me about the personality traits of yours you are working on. You are thinking so freaking hard about your M and your W that you appear stuck to me.


Because that would mean she would have to make a choice. Right now, you are hanging around her waiting for her to drop OM. She has both of you hanging on, waiting on her. Why are you giving her that luxury? Go out and live your life. You dont need to divorce her. Just stop waiting on her to pick you. If she wants to do the work and be with you, she knows where to find you.


So, stop making it easy on her. She says some things like that, and you spin around thinking, analyzing, considering, and so on. START. DOING.

Why do you get the impression that I am trying to say that I am not to blame for the failure of my M at all? Overall I have always been a pretty good guy, not perfect, but my W can't name a single thing about me that is a reason for her loss of attraction. So I have been on my own in terms of trying to figure it out. If you read my last several posts, I talk in depth about what I have been finding as I dig into myself to uncover my own flaws. Much of that stems from deep seated childhood issues which I can't easily change overnight with a 180. For example, I can't suddenly start to be a genuinely more empathetic person overnight. I have been starting to work away at this stuff but it's the kind of thing that will take me years or an entire lifetime to change.

Anyhow, three different ICs have all told me that if there's anything I have to learn here, it's that I need to value myself more and realize that I'm worthy of much more than what my W has brought to this M. My usual tendency is that I'm too hard on myself and I tend to assume that our problems are caused by something that I'm doing or not doing. If anything, I need to shift more in the other direction of realizing my W's shortcomings for what they are, and start to stand up for myself and be willing to walk away if she won't meet me in the middle.



To me, giving it our best shot means doing the obvious things we would need to do to cultivate an atmosphere where it's possible to heal our R. For starters, she would need to commit to NC with the OM and to honesty. From there, we both have work to do with learning how to communicate better, learning to set boundaries and respect the boundaries of the other. To me, giving it our best shot means doing this for awhile with a lot of help from MC to see what happens. If we really both try hard at it and nothing seems to improve after 8 months or so, then we could give up on the M knowing that we gave it our best shot.


That's not correct. I stopped pussyfooting and pushing her on around December 31st, a couple of days after I discovered that she had broken her NC commitment for the 3rd time. That's when I finally accepted that I couldn't trust her and had no choice but to let go. That's also when I stopped snooping. I decided not to file D because it seemed wise to take things slowly, but I have been leaning that way since then, fairly consistently.


If you go back and read my recent posts, you'll read about the personality traits I'm working on. Nobody is replying when I talk about that stuff. It's as though you're only paying attention to the things I say that fit the story you have about me being a person who is stuck in a rut and doing everything wrong. It's pretty frustrating, to be honest. I could really use some support and encouragement. Not these constant put-downs.

Perhaps it appears like I'm focused too much on my W because that's what I'm interested in talking about here. I'm not all that interested in talking about the other stuff in detail because that stuff is great and I don't need help with it. I need help with the problem areas.

If I'm stuck on one thing, it's the notion that it's possible to move on with my life without filing for D. That still does not compute for me, although I have been making a genuine effort over the past 3 weeks, hoping that perhaps if I just try, it will get easier and start to make sense. So far, it is getting easier as I am becoming more detached, but it still doesn't make sense. In the past 3 weeks, I have hardly talked to my W about the R at all, other than those two MC sessions. I have been fully engaged in GAL activities, out with friends most evenings, etc. I just find it impossible to ignore the fact that my situation at home is pretty miserable right now and is a huge obstacle.

I'm a very all-or-nothing kinda guy, and I'm not willing to settle for an empty M where my W is just a roommate. I can tolerate it for awhile if she needs space to come around and that's what it takes as part of "giving it my best shot", but I'm just not comfortable living in limbo like this when there's no progress whatsoever. Having a solid M in which I can grow and learn and raise a family together with someone I love is one of my main goals in life. If I'm engaged and working on a M together with my W, then I'm working toward that goal. If I'm filing for D then I'm also working toward that goal (it's the first step in finding someone else). But if I'm just staying in a dead M and trying to ignore that while focusing on the rest of my life, I feel like I'm not making any progress toward that goal at all, and that really bothers me.

For now, I will tolerate how much it bothers me. I cannot conclude with certainty yet that my W is not making any progress at all.