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I know none of you have The Answers, and I'm sorry my first post was a little desperate. We have some very concrete things going on that demand a certain pace, like we have started the debt default/possible bankruptcy process due to the business debt, and his business will be closing. These things require being able to deal with each other, and it's really hard to do DBing at the same time, because the priorities sometimes compete. Like, I could let some things go, and go darker in general (I am already pretty dark), if we didn't have to get back to the debt attorney about something asap, etc. We also have a 2y/o who is living with me full-time, and whom he is visiting in the house every day. I am getting out of the way and out of the house for almost every single one of those, but it's still hard.

I have been as friendly as I possibly can be lately, which I have not managed to do for the entirety of the separation, but I'm working on it. He has put out little bits of interest here and there, but it has always been SO mixed in the past (e.g., saying he wants to move back into the basement for financial reasons and proximity to our son). If I had been full-fledged DB'ing, I might have been able to respond differently/better, but I basically said, your moving out was based on not being able to stand living with me, and moving back in needs to be based on something relevant to that, in the context of a genuine effort to work on our relationship. He has said since July that he wasn't ready to work on our relationship. He agreed to go to therapy, and I finally stopped it because it was clear that, while it could have been really useful with a willing partner, he was still there because he "agreed to go," not because he was a true participant. So I said lovingly, let's stop until/unless you want to do this.

As I've pored over the forums, I've definitely recognized that there are more little tiny "signs". I haven't responded to all of them perfectly, but mostly, I've responded decently, like when he told me he thought I looked pretty one night, I just said thank you. I didn't say, oh, thank you, it's so nice to hear that. But I did say that it was very nice to get his 6 new year's eve texts saying he loved me and missed our family. After asking him if he was sober. :-/ I debated a lot over asking that, but previous experience was that he professed love when relapsing. :-/ He said he was sober, and I said I really appreciated what he said. Then a week later, I had to set a major boundary about missing his visits with the kiddo, was angry when I did it, and he retreated. I have since thanked him for respecting that boundary, and he thanked me for noticing.

So I know there are little slivers of glimmers, but I just feel like maybe I want to tell him that I am ready to either work on our relationship, or to be open to other relationships. I dunno. I'm just kind of in one of those spots right now, either with lots of PMA and lots of goodness in my life. It's hard right now to see why I should keep something so negative in my life when it seems like I have been feeding it lopsidedly for years anyway.


Thank you sooooo much for listening. It really does help to get this out (even though I am a really private person and feel really exposed). Thanks a lot.

Whoops, I think my posts may be out of chronological order, but anyway.

To be clear, the reasons I have stayed this long are out of commitment to my marriage and commitment to my son to give him the very best life I can. I would have done anything for my husband and the marriage when I believed we were both in it for life, but seeing how much he has prioritized anything and everything above the marriage, me, and even his son in a lot of ways (though he's a good dad in many ways), has been stunning.

That's all for now. Going out to dinner with a friend. Thanks much.

Thanks for sharing. Keep posting. This is a good home.

I'm having a hard time getting my head around this



followed by this



So you are all about staying committed to marriage as long as it lives up to your expectations. Got it. So if you left the marriage now it would be based on what exactly? Not adultery? Not abuse? But that you no longer believed he was in for life? Although he hasn't filed for divorce, has told you he loved you as recently as 3 weeks ago, has been open to discussion on topics like counseling, and is dealing with a health crisis/financial crisis/sobriety crisis and is at his absolute worst? But now is the time you are ready to lob out ultimatums?

And what's this talk about being open to other relationships? Do you already have your next partner picked out?

Personally I believe you should stand by your M, stay through the 'for worse', and achieve the lifelong commitment you say you wanted. And if, if by chance this isn't possible, and sometime in the next year a D is filed, I would suggest you avoid other men for a minimum of 1 year after the divorce has been finalized.

I get the difficulty of the situation. The fear of the unknown. The pain of not having your needs met. The frustration and anger at your partner who's actions seem to be creating this difficulty. The longing for intimacy and emotional support. I get all of that. I get that marriages 'shouldn't be this hard', and 'shouldn't have months where you're not living together'. But they do. This board has proven they do. The divorce rate is 60% and of the remainder many go through adversity like this. So now that you know marriage doesn't work the way you wish it did, what do you want to do from here? Keep in mind that when you are talking about exploring other relationships you are comparing your relationship at it's worst with a fantasy of what you hope to find elsewhere.

What do you consider to be reasonable cause to file divorce?

Not trying to pick a fight on your first day when you need some good support. Just trying to understand where you're at right now, and if you're the type of person that operates off of beliefs or feelings.

That all said, if you're just venting your pain I get it. I recognize that you've been nothing but committed to this point, and you've worked on you, and have not acted on these feelings. So if you're just blowing off steam I totally understand. Just trying to get it.

Also...what does H say is the reason he can't live with you anymore? That's pretty important and I couldn't see anything in here that talks to your contributions to the breakdown of the marriage beyond working a lot for 9 months.

Hi Zues,

Thanks for replying. Yes, a bit of picking a fight with the noob, but I can take what I can use and leave the rest, and I appreciate the time anyway.

I wasn't talking about divorce, but sorting through my feelings about turning some sort of corner and wanting to move forward.

I mentioned some of my posts were out of chronological order; one of them seems not to have posted at all. That was the one explaining more about my negativity, especially during that very difficult time preceding BD.

I work on myself a lot. One area of focus for me these days is not to find too much fault with myself, and not to take an inappropriately large amount of responsibility for things.

I assume you were being cheeky when you summarized my commitment as "as long as it lives up to [my] expectations" without knowing very much about me or my situation. Lots more has happened than I can write about here, including an inappropriate interaction with another woman during a blackout, things that have exposed me to tremendous legal risk and have caused me actual financial disaster, and many, big lies (another series of which happened this week with the car situation I mentioned in my first post). Some addicts end up coming out the other side of a relapse better and stronger, and some really continue on a road of self-destruction for a very long time. I am still here, still working, still muddling through, and I'm actually pretty darn steady and steadfast, as a person and in this situation. I don't know where my limit will be. Those are some of the things I am hoping to sort out, and I was using this forum as one source of support.
Anyway, thanks.

Take care, all. Happy birthday, MLK...

Oh...and...

I bought ice cream on the way home and met H with two spoons when he came down from putting the boy to sleep. I told him I didn't want there to be any miscommunication about surgery stuff, and told him that I had not raised the issue of being there for his surgery out of respect for his wish for space and my understanding that he doesn't want me in his life in that way right now. (A few days ago, he told me, "Oh, about surgery, if you WANT to be there, you can...") I said it felt really strange that I won't be there for this surgery (given everything we've been through together), and that if he asked for my support, I would be there. He thanked me and said he appreciated me saying it and that he doesn't consider the surgeries a big deal at this point. He also said he's going to request no narcotics and/or give any narcotics to his sponsor, because he thinks they contributed to his relapse.

So there's that...

Bump. Would some others care to read and reply?

Joie, I do wish you well on your journey. I can tell you've put up with an awful lot. I will admit that I am rubbed the wrong way. No huge deal, I'm human, it's not that uncommon. I am just trying to figure out why. Best I can tell, the same way you feel I am judging you without knowing much about your sitch, I get the feel you think your sitch is different and more complicated than that many thousands that have gone before you that have come here for support, and there are all of these references to things we don't know or understand. But when I hear talk of 'limits', ultimatums, and moving to other relationships, based on feelings and what you're getting out of the marriage at this time, well, that strikes a nerve because to me that is the same way of thinking that has eroded marriage in this country and led to the pain in the hearts of each poster on this forum.

My beliefs are extremely clear on this subject. I believe that we are to follow our beliefs not feelings because feelings are a poor compass to steer our lives by and thoughts are no better being rationalizations of those feelings. So the smartest people I know are smart enough not to forge their own path, but to know they should follow a higher set of beliefs. I believe that every single married person in the world could easily, easily, easily file for divorce and have good reasons to do so because marriage is that hard, and at the end of the day you get to choose, do you want a lifelong marriage, or do you want a story about why that wasn't possible in your life? It really is one or the other. And I think it is important to understand that at the onset of a family crisis because it is that hard, I usually tell people with 'breaking points' to just go ahead and file because the only way to save a marriage is to dig deeper than they ever thought possible, fair, or necessary, and if they aren't committed to it there is no way it will just magically work itself out. But I realize not everyone agrees with those beliefs, in fact it's clear looking at the world I am in the minority.

This doesn't mean that this isn't a great forum to be on. The people here are some of the most dedicated and courteous people I've ever met. Even disagreements are underscored with love and respect which I have for you. While I feel the responsibility to speak boldly to someone that is on the verge of taking actions I don't believe in, once I've said my piece there is no reason to keep repeating it and I can assure you I will not. You have heard me and I appreciate that. In the meantime I agree that your situation is extremely difficult, and I want you to find support from some of the strong leaders in our community. While your sitch is unique and I am very sorry for the pain you're in, I will tell you we are all fighting the fight to try to get some comfort, and sort through the mess that happens when our spouse walks away.

Hi Joie, I am guessing that the fact that you're dbing means that you are trying to work on your marriage. It's wonderful that your GAL efforts have worked out well and you're happy with your life.

I might have missed something but what was the BD? What did your H do or did not do exactly that led to your separation? Why do you feel like younwant to stop working on it?

Hi Joie,

Thank you for providing more info regarding your situation.

I'm sorry you had a disappointing experience with your IC. The good news is that you are so smart to recognize that a solution focused approach is enormously helpful.

You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Please call me and we can talk about some different pricing options since you are going through a tough financial situation too.

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

Hi Joie, it seems to me like you are on the fence right now.

I don't get the sense that you are ready for D yet, but you are tired of being stuck and you want out of this "limbo." I get it, I really, really do. But I also get the sense that you take your commitment seriously, and you want what is best for your child, which really could be an intact family.

You are being pulled in two directions- do I stay despite getting "nothing" but negativity from h- or do I leave and breathe a sigh of relief and start rebuilding my life? What will change for you if you woke up tomorrow divorced? Would your life really be better? Would your son's life be better?

I think now is the time to dig in really really deep and ask yourself if you are willing to put your own needs and wants on hold and be patient and work on yourself until such a time that you can get off the fence about your marriage. If your H uses this same time to work on himself, you never know, you could reconnect in a better way than before. At least you will have become a stronger person in the meantime, and if you do D, you will not be left wondering "what if?"

You say you are busy GAL'ing. That is good. What are you doing? What are your goals for yourself?

What are you doing today to make your life better? (Joie related, not M related.)

And then I am going to come back and ask you what are your H's issues with you? I know your issues with him, but if I asked him what the problem was, what would he say?