Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Updated/still thinking about next steps

Kyrie, I'm here, I've been reading and thinking about your sitch, I just haven't had much to offer. It's so tough, all I can do is empathize and give you some support.

For what it's worth, I was probably worse than your H in my marriage. I knew I had problems, but thought the biggest issues were XW's. I remember thinking it was on her to bridge the problems in our M since the problems were hers, and using negative behavior as if I was trying to play 'hotter/colder' with her being the one trying to find something and me giving her clues as to which way to go. Not sure where I got the idea that was how a marriage worked

The good news in those words are that it means that just because your H is behaving this way doesn't mean he wouldn't ever be a viable partner. The bad news is that doesn't help you now as you have a hard road ahead.

I'll keep reading if you keep posting. Hopefully some vets chime in soon as well. JB and I are mostly here for moral support.

Hi Fo.2
Let's see. He's a pastor & counselor (ha!). He had an EA (possible PA). We moved out of state (me first in Jan this year, him when then house sold in late March). During that time apart he developed that relationship and it continued via phone/Facebook after the move. I found out about it and it eventually disintegrated. He's also MLC - wanted to quit the ministry and be a full time drummer (always been his passion).
That seems to have passed and now he is just full of resentment and bitterness, all directed at me.
He's always complained that I was never submissive, always arguementative, and fought him for headship. Those are valid - and I confessed & repented of all of that over the summer. I'm still working on that part of me.
We've tried counseling off and on. I'm not formally in counselling but have reached out to other trusted pastors, etc.
Yes, 2 children (my 14YODaughter is from my first marriage).
I've read most of it and yes, tried detatching, GAL, PMA...

Part of the problem is he's a counselor himself and sees all of this as manipulation and a game. He sees right through a lot of things.

Thanks for your open-ness and vulnerability Zues. He is also addicted to porn (which is what destroyed my first marriage) - he doesn't know that I know about it.
What you describe is spot on. He does think that way - what finally opened your eyes to things?
Your support means a lot - I want all the answers but I know it doesn't work that way. Knowing how things worked for you does help though. I want to understand it all but also know full well that probably doesn't ever happen - nor does it need to.

I hesitate to answer what "opened my eyes" for a few reasons. One, are my eyes really open? I've learned a lot, and I think I'd be a better partner. But I'm a work in progress, and I'm not sure I'm an example of an end product. Also, what woke me up to the need to change might not be the same thing as what drives your H. Some people change sooner. Some never do.

That all said, I have to say it was the loss of my marriage. My M was bad. We didn't speak for months at a time. We were both defeated. I just figured we'd work through it. When she asked for a D and kicked me out of the house it really shook my world. I felt like it was a terrible mistake because I know I'm a good guy and that it seemed like a major loss to incur over what I felt was a tragic misunderstanding. But it was too late, and now it's ancient history.

I also used porn throughout my M as well as the prior relationship. There are a lot of conflicting views on this. I just read on Trumpet's post some of them. Some find it as destructive as serial affairs. Others feel that since it doesn't involve any third parties either physically or emotionally it is as irrelevant as whether someone reads romance novels. I have my own opinions but don't feel like enough of a subject matter to offer any advice. I think the big question is whether you would leave your marriage if you knew he wouldn't stop, or if it something you can accept in your life. I'm just not sure that's easy for you to answer right now, because right now it would be too easy to add that to a list of reasons to get D when in reality you're just listening to your own pain. Decisions shouldn't be made in pain. Something to think about, but not act on.

Hang in and keep posting.

Kyrie, I would never suggest to anyone that they let go of marraige that didn't place someone's life at risk. I am social worker who works with parents that abuse each other and their children. In 15 years of doing this work, I have seen some parents, husband and wives made radical change to get the families and partnerships they want, that are safe and loving.

It's so hard when I know there are little tiny glimmers of hope here & there.

Tonight I saw that he was looking at passive-agressive books on Amazon. At first I thought he'd "recommend" them to me - he accuses me of that but it fits him more! But then I realized maybe he was considering them for himself. Dunno.

Let him look and read and educate himself, if his motivation is to gain more understanding of you. Then let him be. He may well be looking for a means of diagnosing you for all you faults but that's not your business right now.


Save myself - I seriously have examined and repented of my many mistakes. I keep making many of them - usually when he assails me (emotionally).

Kyrie I am no judge of your need to repent, that is between you and your God. My description of saving yourself is the old adage of putting your own oxygen mask on first, before you assist a loved one.

I read back over your previous threads last night. My sense of your description is that you and H are caught in a high conflict communication cycle, with you both needing to be right about the other. Sounds like so much hurt and accusation and blame. And throw what also sounds like MLC on top. It reads like the two of your a mirroring back to each pain and hurt, pain and hurt Well it just sounds increadiably hard.

Someone, likely you Kyrie needs to get off this exhausting tredmill. It really does go no where and you sound lost and defeated. It also sounds from what you write that you feel responsible for fixing whatever is broken in the M and in H.

The thing is Kryrie you don't have that level of control or power. You only have the ability over you. That is what I meant saving yourself.

I read that you have a background in the Miltary. I make an assumption that you have a good understanding of self discipline and self control, that you know how to take plan and make it work to the advantage of you and your unit or team.


Likely what I am about to say is going to sound impossible. But Kyrie it likely needs to be done. Get that miltary game back on. It's time to get your heart out of the game and get yourself a strategy. DBing is the strategy.

H thinks your game playing, well potentially this is the case. Likely what he is seeing is you moving in and out of your Dbing and it confuses him.

Time to commit to a plan. And Kyrie the plan really doesn't involve much of H doing anything other than him being exactly who he is right NOW. The more you accept that H is going to keep turning up everyday looking and behaving exactly how he is the more you work your plan.

180, no R talk, GAL, see counsellor and work on you, build your self esteem and confidence, get yourself a spew jacket, and start emotionally separating yourself from H view of you and this M.


And thank you. I don't want to do the wrong thing.

and Kryie, there is no wrong on this journey, it just is. no more judgement sweet lady. Kindness to yourself makes this an easier road.

Please read Fo's threads, she is one of the bravest Dber's here. She has alot to contend with on many levels, she struggles but Fo keeps working her plan and she stands tall in the work she does and she has a spirit and zest for life which is simply amazing.

As Zues said, I am here for moral support. There are too many others here, who are so much better at offering real workable advice and stratgies, But I do make a great cheerleader.

Please post on other's threads, they will get to know you and you them. That is when the real change happens. The change that frees you from some of the pain and stuckness attached to your sitch. quote]

Shoot JB, I didn't mean to indicate that your insight was any less than a vet. I was trying to get some vets' attention and was just trying to shun any responsibility for guiding her as she's in a tough spot. You are the best thing going on the DB boards and have 15 years of baby eating experience for crying out loud, so thank you for taking an interest!

PS- love the comments about seeing so many of the dysfunctional R's work out.

Oh sweet Zues. You know my sitch and you know that I have Db'ed myself through singledom for the last year, with my imaginary relationship with Mr Ex Lol .

I'm not in the trenches. Yourself and other's have been doing the hard yards.

Besides I'm great at empathy and a great cheerleader. I work to my strengths and assests here.

I will keeping bumping Kyrie's thread, until the boards Big Guns come out, the one's like you Zues. You have your name for a reason big fella.

JellybXXX

Thank you, all of you. So when he comes and wants to talk, what do I do?
I had decided that I was (again) going to state clearly I'd like to talk, do care about him but will not accept attacks.
In the past he's turned that back to "then it is on your terms and that's why you never change" blah blah blah.
What then?

(and, baby eating??)

And Jelly B, he loves to diagnose everyone, esp. me, but never himself. Much more likely he's thinking of how to "handle" me, since manipulation is his primary method.

Oops. I should explain...I was pretty worked up a few weeks ago and might have suggested that everyone that works in court services tears families apart for a living and is part of a soulless machine that will be regarded as being as immoral as slavery in 50 years...the comment that they all eat babies may or may not have come out of my mouth. Fortunately those that know me know that I'm all bark and it was a really tough weekend for me.

Anyway, I don't see how any conversations between the two of you are going to be productive right now. JB is right, you are in a bad cycle. Would he be open to going to an IC?

As far as I'm concerned anyone that refuses to go to counseling when their M is failing is admitting they are out of line. If he won't go I wouldn't file D, I would just keep moving forward.

Personally I think you need a DB coach. Mine was awesome. And they would be one of the few I'd trust as a counselor in a situation like this. And if he won't go then they can help you much more than any of us. Is that possible?