Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers LBS becomes the WS. The price of peace.

Isn't it over for the M when the WS decides on the D. I didn't want it but my H is and he is adamant this is the course of action,

Would I care as much if I now have OM? This is something I think about. Easy for H as h has someone else to make him feel better, as it has been said before, to self medicate.

I agree with you Py, both the LBS and the WS are in a fog. I don't deny H isn't hurting but this is his choice with his justification. Where is the for better, for worse. Is it so bad that they feel it is better to walk away? I don't think so. I agree with Zues, we made the decision to commit, and that's what's making me try as hard as I do, trouble is we thought our spouse made that commitment too, obvious to LBS that isn't the case.

I know that I have tried to commit to this marriage. I am seriously beginning to think my that one trying is not enough. One only committed is not enough. As H keeps telling me love isn't enough.

The fog/ draw of they OWN/OM is too much. I am now thinking that once OW with H implode I may become an option. I don't want that, do any of us?

Sorry to sound so negative, feeling low this evening.

This is so perfectly worded. I agree whole heartedly with your commitment to marriage. I wish everyone could read this before deciding to walk away or before engaging in an affair. Wish the mandatory premarital counseling really discussed this with more couples! Actually I wish our marriage counselor would have said this to us! These concepts need to be hammered in on the first day of counseling.

Loved the piece on spirituality Py. That's some high vibrational thinking. In essence, DB'ing is just that. Spirituality to me is not turning yourself over to a higher power, but fully embracing the hand that you have been dealt and finding peace within it.

The moment to moment presence to do that. To find empathy for your suffering partner despite the pain they are causing you. To keep your integrity when you have every reason not to.

That is spirituality to me. You nailed it.

Great piece, it was humbling to read.

PP

hey Smothy, Zeus, Julie, dwh,

Zeus - great to see ya man !! Thanks for chipping in.

My mum has only seen W once since BD. She had to handle changeover of the kids for me coz I was laid up. She raised the issue of for better or worse with my W, pushed her but could get no comment. They HAVE to justify their behaviour no matter what remember. cognitive dissonance at its best.

I agree with this for better or worse sentiment. Wholeheartedly. I commented to GB one time that I don't really believe that M is sacred or D is a sin per se, but that doesn't mean I dont believe it shouldn't be "until death do us part".

This raises the issue of Love & M though. If one partner is no longer in love with the other, or more dramatically (as in my case) is in love with someone else should they stay in the M? I believe they should, or at at least try to. This is absolutely NOT because I have anything less than the utmost respect for love and honestly find it to be the greatest reward in life.

My grandmother commented to me when I was too young to understand, that the love you feeler your H after 50 years of ups and downs, raising a family etc runs much deeper and is much more rewarding than the love you feel when you first get married.

So Smothy, I agree with your H that "love" isn't enough, but love evolves. The rush we feel in the first few months is not there after 10 years. Expecting it to be is just stupid. Probably in most cases the WAS is not satisfied with the M, experiences this rush with AP and concludes the M does not give me this, therefore the love is gone in my M, I am justified to end it. This modern phenomena of short term, self gratification is as disgusting and ignorant as the short-sightedness of government agenda.

Arranged Ms are worthwhile thinking about in this space. This is on the other side of the coin to the "love isn't enough" way of thinking. All other compatabilties are in principle taken care of a priori, love evolves. Ironically arranged Ms have a FAR lower D rate.

Most of us have had long enough Rs with our Ss to NOT simply fall into this "we're just not compatible" bin. No - I'm afraid our Ss were just steamrolled by this modern attitude of SELF importance and everything that comes out of their mouths in justification is just ignorant rhetoric inspired by a society that is drowning real, longterm happiness. Its very sad indeed.

This is where I feel I am at now. I am being forced into adopting this attitude. I know how hard it is for me in my circumstance. I also knew my W for 12 years and although we didn't discuss this particular issue, I think/thought I knew where she would stand. Hence I can only imagine how hard it would've been for her and can absolutely see how her crazy/angry behaviour is just the fallout of this internal conflict.

It is also not surprising in this light to see how a lifetime pattern is setup for the WAS. This is a huge re-wiring of values and no doubt defines a new set of values for the WAS. In this respect I am thankful that it isn't me. I am sad for my W and almost hope that she does come unstuck, bottom out and have the chance to rebuild a more robust set of values. Values that aren't at the mercy of feelings that come and go.

Beliefs - Values -> -> behaviour ->->-> feelings

It seems our WSs are running arse about and trying to modify their Beliefs-Values to match their feelings. CRAZY!

thanks for the discussion. it sure helps me. will venture out of my own sand-pit when I have some more time.

This is something I have thought long and hard about also. MLC leading to a PA and WW, but as the LBS at some point am I going to give in to the emotions and have a breakdown of my own. I have been craving the loving touch I need for months. That is how I need love communicated to me, through physical connection. I'm not getting that and honestly don't think I will be getting that for quite some time. Do I have the strength to continue without having a lapse in judgement myself? This really is a nasty situation for all involved.

Hmm...that's an interesting thought. Of course, if we stop being LBS, as our WAS returns, it is then up to us to foster a belief that it's right and that we can forgive. We would only, ourselves, become WAS if we didn't deal with the original problems and let any resentment fester beneath.

I think though we are spared the breakdown HH. The demolition of sanity was already carried out by our WW. Hanging on indefinitely in the hope of R is equally as crazy. I suppose it depends on each of us, individually, how long we "wait".

I am not ready to go looking for anything, but if I was coerced ....? I can't say really. My point really, from the opening post, is that I can feel this hurdle. This hurdle that I feel like I am giving in, like I am the WAS.

This gives me a new appreciation of what my W went through and possibly explains to me why she was so incredibly angry. It was directed at me, but it was hers. I always did put it down to her internal conflict - but - my epiphany has been that now I feel what I imagine to be the same internal conflict. Just for me it must be 100s of times less given our positions.

I understand some of what you're saying Py...I happen to see a few things differently.

The LBS can't become the WAS. I don't believe that. I know that's been said by vets, but to me the WAS is the one that took the action that broke the marriage, that broke the commitment. Choosing to not recommit to a person that abandoned the marriage is a UNIVERSE different from being the one that made the choice to drop the bomb, walk out the door, take legal action, have affairs, etc. Sometimes I think LBS's tell themselves this as a way to feel like less of a victim which I appreciate, but they are not the same at all.

Likewise, you SHOULD be hesitant to recommit to a new R with this person. It's not because you're untrusting or uncommitted...it's because they are untrustworthy and uncommitted. Why WOULD you recommit to a partner that did this? I get that's why we all joined this board initially, but to truly R requires both opportunity AND good reason to return to the marriage. Initially we're so hung up on opportunity, we forget that we need the good reason (remorse from WAS, growth, reason to believe they can actually be a committed partner).

So accepting the loss of a M that someone else decided for us, and being wary of recommitting to this person based on their lack of regard to your needs, desires, or the sanctity of M...this isn't the same as the entitlement and selfishness that drives the WAS to make this choice.

Sure we have other negative emotions to manage, and desires driving us. We are human too and have to be wary of our motives, of taking the easy path that doesn't jive with our beliefs. But accepting our loss and making the best of the life we have been given is the goal we are here to achieve, not following in the footsteps of those that brought us here.

I believe that our core values and beliefs gives us the impetus to try to salvage our M. I agree, Py that WAS core beliefs and values leads to behaviour and feelings which are justifiable to them.

I can't sleep ATM its 3.12am here. Tearful. My sitch is making my imminent move filled with more anxiety than it should. I see this as a new chapter but one I am not ready for yet. Questions in my head.

What point is no return? How much more of the lies/ emotional rollercoaster can we take? At the point of no return, I don't believe I become the WAS but a person who has done what they could to save my M. I know that when my time comes to walk away it will be a painful thing to do.

I am not It sure of the guilt though. Should we be guilty of trying as hard as we could? Lessening our own pain and truly moving on? Giving up on hope? Our M that only LBS hold dear?

Smothy- you don't need to figure that out tonight. Nothing you can decide will change the way you feel. The negative emotions are all there, decisions can only make us feel like we're making progress when we're just shifting them around (feelings of rejection become feelings of bitterness or resentment, etc).

I've been reading your sitch, WAH is putting you through a roller coaster. I'm glad you'll get away. I look at Pink's sitch, it seems similar in some ways. Who the heck knows what WAH will do. All I know is you can't count on him now with your emotional well being, and if that time ever comes again it won't be today or tomorrow.

Letting go isn't walking. So get out of dodge and start to let go little by little. It's time. 6 months is enough, and you deserve the peace that comes.