please dont take this wrong, I really am trying to look objectively at how I respond in my sitch, so tell me what I am doing that is full blown pursuit, and how am I enabling? by doing the vehicle legwork? I'm not understanding this and would like to. from my perspective, i am "acting as if", "doing what works" and keeping the pressure off as suggested in the MLC chapter and the Infidelity chapter.
Enlighten me please! (I'm ok with 2x4's, obviously I have an incredibly thick skull!-- or weak glasses or something!)
Hi Deb, sorry I wanted to reflect more on your posts before continuing with my comments and you know how work has a way of interrupting our BB chats.
First, I am not a fan of ultimatums. They exert more pressure than most people, even on good days, can accept. Secondly, I don't want to give the impression that what you are doing is wrong. I just believe that there needs to be more consistent efforts in specific ways.
Let's look at the short terms. My rule of thumb is they must be easy and attainable. And for these first ones I want them to be YOU oriented. This aids in the detachment process. Make them fun. We’ll set R goals later.
Detaching: This, you must realize is for YOUR mental health. From a couple of comments, I get the impression that you may think this involves being colder and possibly more distant from hubby. Sue’s thread sums up my interpretation very well so I won’t repeat them, just link to them. My feelings on this is detaching allows you the mental clarity to see options you can't when you're right there in the trenches. Here's Sue's link which is the best I've found on the subject: Sue's Detatch Thread
Pursuing: There are certain things that can be overdone out of our desire to get things moving. A simple ILY from hubby one day does not open the door for us to shower him with ILY’s every day. Let’s step back here and do what JoAnne my DB coach said to me and ‘respond in kind.’ Never would I suggest that you should appear cold or unappreciative of hubby’s affection, just allow him to set the pace.
Let’s set the baseline at the emotional level you feel that you are at today and begin to build goals from here. It seems that there is a greater comfort zone emotionally at home now. This is good. We have to KNOW what set this about. And then the next step is identifying what it was that attracted hubby to you in the first place. And as difficult as it may be, what attracted hubby to OW now. You see, we need to glean what hubby feels he needs/wants from this conglomerated persona and see if you would be comfortable adopting some of these traits yourself.
Now for the long terms I need you to specify what you see as best case scenario’s. They don’t have to be as specific or even attainable as the short term, but let’s be realistic. I would like three.
So, homework for tonight is three short term YOU goals, review and refresh Detaching threads, and three long term goals.
Hi Dazed, thank you, this is very helpful food for thought and I will work on it. It may be Monday before I get much chance to be back on bb, as have a very busy weekend.
I will review the detaching threads, I've read them before and I understand "real" detaching as being able to remove one's emotions from the behaviors of S...to get to and be able to maintain a kind of "neutral" state of mind. Am I right? obviously I am not there with any consistency.
I might start in here for a minute about what attracted H to me and to OW....hmmmmmm...we've been together so long I have to really think about this...I was a skinny, athletic kid then, pretty much a tomboy; I was probably more confident then, because I wasn't as aware of all that I don't know!; I was very accepting (H was about a year out of his only other serious R, and she had worked real hard to completely remake the guy; I thought he was great the way he was); I was independent/take charge/get it done kind of person; frankly I think there was some of the "thrill of the chase" there--I dated quite a bit then, guys would call my house while he was there, he even told me about overhearing a guy I had dated tell another guy "that's the guy that married the girl I wanted". and we used to talk for hours just about "the meaning of life" and dreams, etc.... Ok, OW (ick, you're right this is hard) this is from the outside looking in, as I don't know her well even though she's a co-worker, but also from what H has told me when I asked him. H has flat out told me that she made him feel like he was important and mattered to somebody (ouch, ouch ouch, but I think those are his exact words), she was more receptive to him sexually (OUCH);-she plays up to his ego...I've found emails that are incredible...how he's her reason for living, her very favorite everything...ad nauseum (PUKE), --she comes across as not having a care in the world, all giggly and happy always; --she appeals to his need to be a caregiver (she's a youngest child by many years, and it shows in her personality); she never challenges his authority; she is not part of his obligations as a "breadwinner"....what I mean is he doesnt have to work with her to figure out stuff like budgets and bills and taxes and Dr. appts., and kids activities, etc.; she might be a better housekeeper, don't know, our place is sometimes a real zoo; I'm pretty sure hers would be calmer
So are there things I'd be willing to adopt? you bet...I've been working on some of them, for myself, not just R & H.... I'm losing weight and exercising, being fat & sedentary has never been me.....kind of lost my self there trying to keep up w/kids and everything that goes with it; trying to make home calmer, more pleasant; making a point of just taking time to talk/listen/sit w/H and letting "ought to do's" take a lower priority; trying to be more upbeat and cheerful and hopeful and encouraging; trying to be less controlling; being much more sexual; making sure I express appreciation and admiration; working on letting go of irritations and resentments that don't really matter....
So, what am I not willing to do? I will never be a "giggly" type person...I am not willing to make him my "only reason for living" (an exact quote from one of her emails)... I am not willing to abandon my "self" to boost his ego in ways that arent sincere (if that makes sense) .....
Gotta do some work so going to sign off for now.
I might just add that it was kind of interesting last night when I got home from work...we chatted for a little while, just both leaning against the island in the kitchen, and I noticed he was making a lot of eye contact....not "come on" or teasing, but just steady, open, eye contact. I think this is new, because this is the first time I've noticed it and think I would have before. Of course, I was reading a post from MLC about "reconnecting" so was more watching for it, but I still believe this is new. Also, when I gave him a hug when I got home, I put my head on his shoulder and he kind of put his cheek down against mine....this is new. This morning he commented about giving the DR book title to his secretary who recently D'd her H and now wants him back (dummy!) and said "I think it may be too late because from what I hear he's got women all over him" and then made the comment that "and you said it's not for the faint of heart, I don't know if she'll really be up to it"....I wanted to say (again)..so, does that meant it worked in this case, and you recognize how hard its been and how far we've come"....but of course, in struggling to be the best db'er possible, I just said, "yes, it's likely to turn the way she looks at things upside down".
Seriously, how does Dr. Zhivago end? (from question in newcomers thread)....gotta go, will work on home work, Thanks Dazed and all!
just thinking here some more....thought I'd post before the thoughts slip from my befuddled mind
"respond in kind", "let him set the pace".....yes, that makes a LOT of sense, and I have been trying to implement that better....I think I did probably come on too strong in some ways, and am really trying to be more aware of this.
Quote: It seems that there is a greater comfort zone emotionally at home now. This is good. We have to KNOW what set this about.
I believe that this must be due to some of the efforts/180's I've made: --made a point of expressing appreciation for things he does (even if I think he oughta do it just because) --he really is a good looking guy and a good lover, and I've been telling him that; --he complained about having to do all the outside chores by himself every night and morning, I've been working on them with him, --I've quit complaining about little stuff (toilet seats, newspapers out of place, his mother, etc.) --I've tried to make just "listening" a priority, and to validate his concerns and emotions, even if I think they're off the wall; I've made an effort to point out his strengths and the things I think are neat about him --I've tried to be more cheerful and more physically attractive --tried to do little things for him --tried to "spice up" the sex life...try things i resisted before, up the frequency, initiate (maybe too much)sexier undies --tried to keep house better/cook favorite foods, etc., still a work in progress, though. --cut back on/minimized "shopping" --tell him I appreciate/enjoy his efforts to do things w/me--fires, movies, walks, snuggles, etc.... --really trying to consider things from his point of view, asking myself "how must this seem to him"...a lot of times that's been eye opening if I just stop and do it....and then sometimes edit my response/actions depending on his perceptions of things...
thats all that comes to mind right off, but this is the stuff I've been concentrating my R efforts on....I don't know what has made the most difference, maybe not one specific thing but everything added together. The emotional climate is much warmer, though, that 8 months or so back, so something must be working...it just seems to take so long!
in the mlc reconnection post, it talks about needing to encourage them as you would a child, which struck me because in my minds eye lately I've had this image of him as a toddler beginning to take baby steps in reaching out towards me...like when they are learning to walk, and reach out for the next support with the other hand still holding on to something they're afraid to turn lose of--and of me needing to "coax" him to let go with the "holding on hand" and come to me. Maybe not a very positive image, I don't know, has me kind of parentified, but it sticks in my mind and sometimes pops in to influence my responses.
sigh....patience has never been one of my virtues....
I just have make a note though, I know our sex life was one of his big complaints taht I foolishly ignored for a long time...I think I got my head on straight about that finally though, and have been trying to "spice things up"...last weekend we ml, and I actually kept my eyes open (Rottz?)and I was surprised to notice at one point that his entire upper body, arms and chest, was completely covered in goosebumps. the room wasnt cold, and I've never seen this before in 26 years, so I keep thinking yes! must have done something right that time!....don't know what it was though, darn it.
Do you find it difficult to both be more attentive, affirming, etc with him *and* concentrate on fulfilling your own need to do things for yourself? I find it hard to strike a balance.
I think there is *definitely* something to the spicy sex life, sexy clothing, losing weight thing. My dh and I had lunch this past weekend with a guy we haven't seen in 17 months and Gary (the friend) went on and on about how great I looked -- "younger, sexy, all toned and everything" were his exact words. Though my h has hardly made a comment on the weight I've lost or the exercise I've been doing, I'd guess he has noticed other men's reactions to that and the sexier clothes I've purchased recently (just a hunch).
I have taken pains to spice things up in the bedroom, and my "so shy about sex he won't even buy condoms" h has been very receptive. He even read me a sexy story out of an erotic fiction book last weekend! I had never before heard some of those words spoken by him in any context. So keep up the sexiness!!
