Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Wayward Wife, my addiction, advice needed

Thanks Sandi - Yes, I need to stick up for myself when the sarcasm runs. She grew up in a VERY sarcastic family - most conversations at MIL/FIL's during the holidays are half sarcasm, half 'woe is me, we have no money, and all these bills to pay'. They are do-gooders, but to me the sarcasm is their way of dealing with their buried feelings, and they've done it for years. My parents weren't very sarcastic, so I've learned from the wife. It's not a big part of me, I know that now, but I got good at it. Another 2nd order change, perhaps.

Again, solid comments Sandi. You are a huge blessing to this board, and why, after venturing out for weeks into the interwebs for help, I'm here.

Well thank you very much.

I believe if we are around sarcasm a lot (especially raised in it), it would take considerable effort to change. It can be like a very bad habit. It is possible to retrain ourselves, if we are willing.

I am not that good at wording statements, however, maybe you could say something in a gentle voice that is telling her whenever she makes sarcastic remarks, it affects her beauty. I would start there and if she says she'd like to break herself from doing it.....that will be great. Difficult to not fall back when she's around the parents. If she doesn't care, then you'll know it's going to be tough.

OK, update time.

Wife has agreed to meet with pastor/counselor on Friday evening for an hour. It was done by text, and she didn't want to talk to me about it... strange, but possibly the shame of the EA is setting in?

Don't know if she's still talking with OM at work, but it's still a possibility. Therefore, I need some advice.

At this first meeting, I need to set a boundary on NC with OM. Our pastor has told her she must anyway, so she'll still be in the fog of the EA and we'll be in MC at the same time, but maybe the fog won't stay too long if someone else is telling her to wise up. Anyway, I'm thinking the boundary on NC involves the letter, approved by me, and sent in the mail. She's still Facebook Friends with OM, so contact is just a keyboard stroke away.

What does a good NC letter look like? What would I need to edit or look for before she sends it? This boundary is for the rest of her life, correct? Any examples or links out there?

Let me know - I know I can't just start dropping bombs in the MC session, but the big goal would be to get the NC letter written by my wife and make sure the withdrawl from the EA has really started. Thanks!

My update for the last 24 hours...

I had a great session with the therapist on Wed. Setting personal goals for myself, and learning how I have used passive aggressive and anger to express emotions, instead of directly communicating that to those I care about. One of my goals is to have healthy communication with my wife, who has the same issues, including heavy use of sarcasm, which is another poor way to communicate.

Still working out every morning, up with the kids at 5AM-6AM, getting lunches ready, kissing the kiddos, giving them a hug before they get on the bus.

Our meeting with the pastor/MC on Friday is on my mind. Still trying to decide if I should 'prepare' and have things written down or just to wing it.

Wife made a strange comment - she's noticed I haven't slept in the bed for 4 days - and made me know that she's counting. Considering the perverbial house is burning down, and she's complaining about the knick-knacks not being dusted, I just had to laugh to myself. She has said NOTHING to let me know she cares about me or loves me, no physical touch of any kind for a month, and complains that I'm not in the bed when she is. Mind you, when we're in the bed, she says nothing, makes no conversation, and makes no movement towards me.

I still think I need to set the boundary that absolutely no contact with OM, no Facebook 'friends', no secret texts, and the letter that is sent by me to the OM that states explicitly the NC. The wife still doesn't seem to know the gravity of the situation.

Hey Trumpet,

Just caught up on your thread. Sorry you're in a tough spot my friend. As someone who has also battled with addiction and had addiction play a role in the downfall of his M, I want to commend you for tacking your pornography addiction.

That's never an easy one to admit, nor an easy one to overcome. I've spoken with a lot of men this year who have addiction issues. Some to booze, some to pills, some to sex, and many to porn. It's insidious and definitely ruin your life and any semblance of a relationship.

If you haven't read No More Mr. Nice Guy, I would. Co dependence may not be your exact issue, but most guys with a sexual addiction of any sort (IMO) have elements of it. The indirect communication that you speak of lends to male codependence too.

Keep your faith, you've got some hard work ahead of you but it's going to allow your life to be so much better than anything you've ever experienced.

PP

Trumpet,
Just catching up on your sitch. As others have said you have found a great place to vent and get advice. Be sure to follow the advice of the vets on here.

Don't believe anything she says and only half of what she does. If you do not have consistent proof of it ending (ie access to all social media) then it is most likely going on. Also, if she visited OM and confessed to EA it would safe to assume there is more to it and she is not being truthful. The WW is not the woman you married. The WW is very selfish and manipulative.

it is very hard bc you will be the one doing all the work. She does not care about the M. But the great thing is that the way you'll work on the M is by bettering yourself. Becoming the man only a fool would leave. This doesn't mean becoming super H but correcting the issues you know are wrong in you.


Are wives are very similar. If we remain silent you are showing her that this type of behavior is acceptable. You have to set boundaries and maintain them. In my sitch after my WW made a sarcastic or hateful comment I told her " I will not tolerate you or anyone else speaking to me in this manner. My part of this conversation is over." I then left the room. The hard part is maintaining this boundary. I have had to on several occasions tell her "I will not be spoken to like this" and leave the room. She has followed me several times. I go to the office and put in my headphones. Then I go about my business as if she isn't even there. The disrespect has decreased. I've even received a couple apologies which stunned me! It may not save our M but at the very least I longer have to tolerate the verbal abuse. She knows I will not stand and let her disrespect me. A woman can not love a man she does not respect.

Don't worry about this. She is going to make all kinds of crazy comments. WW are running on pure emotion and are not able to think rationally.

Personally, I think a phone call is better. Of course on speaker phone with you standing right there.

I may avoid reading the M books in front of her. She will probably think it's an act or you're trying to manipulate her. I get up before everyone else and spend quiet time in my office reading the bible and praying. I've been doing this consistently for 18 months. My WW knows I do it and that she is welcome to join me anytime.

I don't know that this boundary can come from you. She knows this would be unacceptable to you. Plus she will not hear anything you have to say. Save your words. If she wants help you are not going to be able to help her. It will have to come from the pastor.

Hang in there. Post here often. Ask for advice here before you do anything. There are many on this board who have gone through exactly what you are going through. In order for anyone to change there must be pain. Pain causes change. You have felt pain and know you are making lifetime changes. She is going to need to feel the same level of pain or loss before she's going to change.

Be the best Trumpet you can be. Not the best H. The best Trumpet.

Thanks PigPen!

NMRNG is waiting for me at home to read - just got it yesterday in the mail!
Reading Love and Respect right now - halfway through.

I picked up Boundaries last week on a whim, and my gut was correct - need to read that one, too. Will be ordering DR today as well.

Those I know who had a M end in D, more times than not, have one person in the R that just can't give up on the hurt. My therapist brought up releasing the hurt and pain, and how do do it correctly. Something we'll be working on. My wife has the same things she'll need to do, but I can't fix her - she has to fix herself. I'm SOOOO much more calm at home. Her anger doesn't get to me... much. I strive to be the lighthouse, and a man she longs for, lusts after, and wants to spend the rest of her life with. If she decides that I'm not the one, I will deal with the pain and it'll be tough, but I'll get through it.

The tunnel isn't completely dark now. At least I can put one foot in front of the other, and if I need to jump off the train, I can pick my spot, instead of getting pushed off the caboose.

Thanks PigPen!

NMRNG is waiting for me at home to read - just got it yesterday in the mail!
Reading Love and Respect right now - halfway through.

I picked up Boundaries last week on a whim, and my gut was correct - need to read that one, too. Will be ordering DR today as well.

Those I know who had a M end in D, more times than not, have one person in the R that just can't give up on the hurt. My therapist brought up releasing the hurt and pain, and how do do it correctly. Something we'll be working on. My wife has the same things she'll need to do, but I can't fix her - she has to fix herself. I'm SOOOO much more calm at home. Her anger doesn't get to me... much. I strive to be the lighthouse, and a man she longs for, lusts after, and wants to spend the rest of her life with. If she decides that I'm not the one, I will deal with the pain and it'll be tough, but I'll get through it.

The tunnel isn't completely dark now. At least I can put one foot in front of the other, and if I need to jump off the train, I can pick my spot, instead of getting pushed off the caboose.

gs9 - awesome wise words!

Was off yesterday from work, but trying to post just at work so I don't get 'who are you talking to?' questions at home.

Winter weather has arrived in WI! We're getting snow, so the counseling session got cancelled. Rescheduled for Sunday night.

My wife started to pick a fight with me on Friday morning. I mentioned 'are we still on for the session tonight?' and she went haywire that I called it a session. That's what the pastor wants us to do - commit to the process, and give it 4 months. So, I let the anger go, and just mentioned if we're going to work on the marriage we need to commit to it.

I did get an apology from her in a text in the PM - which is really out of sorts over the last month.

I can carry a happy conversation with her... but when it comes to anything about the marriage or our relationship, she either goes on the defense, or shuts down and walks away. She knows it's wrong, and from my snooping, she hasn't used her phone to contact him in the last week. No telling if she's still talking to him at work. She's gotten a little defensive about me working out early in the morning - she is overweight and out of shape from the Grave's disease, and now that she's recovering from it, she knows she has to work on it, but hasn't had much energy to do it.

It's kind of like a toddler that just pooped their pants. It felt good to have the release, and then it feels great that it's warm... but sooner or later it gets uncomfortable, it starts to really stink, and then the poop starts to get cold and crusty... and they'll have to deal with it.

A NC letter would definitely be wise, if she is agreeing to end the A and stop having any form of contact with the OM. How can they work together and have no contact?

If she wants to reconcile the M (and it doesn't appear that she's decided to do it), the NC letter should be approved by the Pastor and mailed to OM by the Pator. Not sent electronically. Most people say the H should approve and mail it, but if the Pator is involved, I feel she would not feel quite the intensity of resentment and rebellion directly toward the H (maybe). No guarantees. I doubt the Pastor or MC would want to mail it, b/c they would want her to do it from heroin free will. Unless, the Pastor really understands the mindset of the wayward woman.........and being Luthern, he just might, IDK. It takes a firm approach with the wayward, and not the soft, cuddling that some Pastors do.

It should state she made a terrible decision by having an A with him, and she is ending it immediately and forever. She loves her H and she is going to do whatever it takes to save her M. She wants no further contact, in any form, with OM.

There are different views about this approach. As a former WW, I can see where she would feel that is done against her wishes. It may appear controlling, however, a WW has to be guided or she will not tell the OM what needs to be said. Of course, she can always contact him and tell him she was forced to write the letter and they would take the A even deeper underground.

There are other things that can be done to help her during the withdrawal period, but none will work if she is not willing. Her H can't make her do things against her will.

When I wrote my NC letter, I kind of left a back door open for the OM. My DB mentor pointed it out to me and told me it would not work until I convinced him that I did not desire to ever have contact again. So, I wrote it, bawling my eyes out. How sick is that? I didn't want to end contact, and your WW won't either. She can't wait until she "feels" like ending it, b/c she's addicted. However, I think she should be "willing" to write the NC letter with the guidance given her. Otherwise, what will it accomplish?

She really needs to stop working with him. I have not seen a successful case where the WW continued to work with the AP.